Boston Doctor Offers Sex Change Treatment to Kids

suzyr wrote:

Hopefully, you all stick around beyond the life of this particular thread.

weebs123 wrote:

Probably not. I'm not into "quirky news."

This isn't something that is routinely talked about in Hays, Kansas, therefore, it fell into the "quirky" category on the site. Maybe it should have been placed somewhere else.

Ratzilla wrote:

My personal feeling is that we'd have less transgender children if we had less glorification in the media of it. I also think the excessive body modification nowdays has led a kid to think they can be anything they want. Like the guy who had horns implanted, scales tattood on, and his tongue split to look like a reptile. He may really want to look that way, but nobody is going to make me believe he's supposed to be a lizard and that it's just nature trying to fix a mistake.

If you want to treat your boy like a girl, or vice verse, it's your kid. But just make sure it's their inner self giving them the idea and not some drag queen on Oprah or Dr Phil, or crossdressing men on their favorite music videos. Kids often will do exactly the opposite of what they think the parents or society wants. Just think of all the weird things you insisted on doing as a kid that you would now find absurd. Be careful with this one parents. What they are convinced they know at 5, 10, or 15 years old is very rarely what they will want as adults.

So does that mean that my uncle's tattoos from the war made my child want to be transgendered? Don't think so. Even I have a small, very girly, tattoo, but never in a million years would I allow my child to get one before they are 18. This issue is way different. And most of our children, not teenagers, have never even seen the Oprah show much less even know what a drag queen is. Most of us parents didn't know what transgendered was until the issue came knocking at our door. And I'm guessing most of us didn't want to answer. But it kept knocking and wouldn't go away, we HAD to deal with it and it has been one heck of a very steep learning curve!

Suzyr,
I plan on sticking around. I was not aware this forum even existed until a friend who knows of my situation told me because he knew I would be interested in this thread because of my personal situation.
I have to say I am impressed with the way everyone has been able to have a civil debate about this important issue.

KS1 wrote:

Suzyr,
I plan on sticking around. I was not aware this forum even existed until a friend who knows of my situation told me because he knew I would be interested in this thread because of my personal situation.
I have to say I am impressed with the way everyone has been able to have a civil debate about this important issue.

Wow, me too!!! I have been referred to other sites by friends that know I am trying to learn all I can about this and I felt sick to my stomach from all the vitriolic hatred some of these other blogs have. I'm glad to find a more civlilized forum of other nearby people who who will actually listen and learn about what we are dealing with.

My child is not a pervert and neither are we! To direct such hate to an innocent child, a child who sure didn't choose this...well I just can't believe some people. I just wish they could keep it to them selves.

I remember when I could say I never heard the word 'transgender' and sure didn't think I knew anyone that was. But when we finally started telling some close friends and family about it, I couldn't believe what I was hearing.... LOTS of families have this! I never knew. I soon found out one of my mom's neighbors is a transwoman, I never knew, and one of her best friends then confided in her that her own grandchild is also transgendered.

There is no agenda, something I am soooo tired of hearing, unless you call treating one another with respect an agenda. We are hardly out to 'convert' anyone and we are not shoving anything down anyone's throat, in fact most of our children are so quiet about it that no one knows, and they guard that privacy intensely. They are normal in every other respect, except that in some ways they they have had to 'toughen up' their exterior to withstand the taunts of others that are not so kind. This is heartbreaking to parents. That alone should be enough to convince anyone that this is not something we 'do' to our children. As a mom my job is to fiercely protect and nurish my child, both physically and emotionally. And the later requires a lot of listening, even if it is not something you want to hear.

Funny thing how natural selection has served nature for millions of years, yet only in the last couple of decades, humans strive to reverse that.

nitromaxx98 wrote:

Funny thing how natural selection has served nature for millions of years, yet only in the last couple of decades, humans strive to reverse that.

I don't know what natural selection has to do with this. This is a rare but natural variation, occuring in some small percentage of births, like any other birth "abnormality".

well, lets let your thoughts be heard through out this topic, because it is important!!!!
i will keep my thoughts to myself!!!

So, transgender can be lumped together with CPD?

You're right Jess, I appologize.

What is CPD?

nitromaxx98 wrote:

Funny thing how natural selection has served nature for millions of years, yet only in the last couple of decades, humans strive to reverse that.

This phenomena has existed through the ages. This is not new to the 'last few decades' Even a minimal knowledge of history will tell you that. The only difference is that medically we are now able to effectively deal with it. But it wasn't for not trying that in the past it was not done. And further, it was not always socially condemmed. Believe it or not some societies revered it and there is still at least one society in S America where it is so prevalent that it is practically expected, and nature itself facilitates the change from one sex to another. I don't know if such a thing exists in other animals but I do know that homosexuality has been observed in many other species. I would not be surprised to find out the same about transgender.

Natural selection has given us all sorts of quirks and anomalies. Some were because they were, and are, advantageous, others simply a biproduct of genetic combination. And of course there are many defects that also occur. However you look at it the origin is in nature, or environment, it is not socially created.

nitromaxx98 wrote:

You're right Jess, I appologize.

huh?

Are you not used to being right?

nitromaxx98 wrote:

Funny thing how natural selection has served nature for millions of years, yet only in the last couple of decades, humans strive to reverse that.

Yep, your absolutely right Nitro, and 100 years ago people born with Chiari Malformation would not have survived. It's called evolution. Medical advancements and the understanding of mental and physical disorders have made huge strides over the past few decades.

I do not doubt for one second that there are parents out there that have abused this situation. You can not stereotype all parents with children that go through this just because of those few. That would be like saying all fat people are fat because they are lazy.

Ratzilla wrote:

Think about this. A Muslim child can be trained to honestly believe blowing himself up to kill Jews is not only right, but will gain him a reward of goats and virgins. If you start from birth and train their every thought for the first 2 or 3 years turning a boy into a girl could easily be accomplished.

Your not seriously going to compare a child that is gender confused with the total and complete brainwashing that leads a human being to attach explosives to his body and then detonates them in the middle of a crowd of people? I have a lot more respect for your opinions than to think that you posted this for no more than shock value.

jessks75 wrote:

Well as long as Your BOY doesn't decide to be a GIRL again and get pregnant the world will be okay!

Why would this bother you? What reason what-so-ever would you have to be concerned with this? Just think of it like this, you would be able to stand up and say, See, I told you it would not work.

weebs123 wrote:

No offense, but what difference is it to YOU whether or not my child decides to have a family when he grows up? The important thing is NOT whether he is a man or a woman, but whether or not he is a good parent. I guess I could make the same comment (as long as Jess doesn't have any kids the world will be okay!) about you, but I wouldn't do that because it is rude, hateful and inappropriate.

Amen, who cares, as long as they are good parents what difference would it make to anyone?

weebs123 wrote:

It's the mother in me who wants to protect her children that brought me here to share my experience with you good people.

I personally hope that all of you stick around and discuss the issues. Not just this one.

I challenge you all to watch the entire 5 part series if you have not, awesome information and a real eye opener and tolerance enhancing.

Okay, longest post I've ever made.

/rant off

nitromaxx98 wrote:

So, transgender can be lumped together with CPD?

Chronic Pulmonary Disease?

you know what, romad..........what do you care what i think???
This is My forum too right????
Or do my thoughts and what I type not count?????
I have my thoughts on it, whether they bring IT TO LIGHT or not, I dont agree with it.
Thats my right, the right that YOU fought for!! Thanks!!!

Quote :

Think about this. A Muslim child can be trained to honestly believe blowing himself up to kill jews is not only right, but will gain him a reward of goats and virgins. If you start from birth and train their every thought for the first 2 or 3 years turning a boy into a girl could easily be accomplished.

This kind of thinking was very popular in the 60s when the Nature/Nurture debate was in it's infancy. It was thought that you could take a baby, any baby, and pretty much train it to be anything you want. Since then there have been numerous studies that say otherwise. Scientific opinion now much more closely favors the nature argument than the nurture argument. It seems many of our traits, from the most mundane to serious, are hardwired. Don't forget that it wasn't that long ago that it was thought that mothers created schitzophrenia in their children, and more recently it was autism. Both these things are now pretty much uncontroversially believed to be biological, which includes brain chemistry.

Scientists have also been able to mimic transgender in lab mice by playing with in vitro hormone levels. It would likely follow that natural surges or deficiencies in hormone levels in a human womb might produce similar results. And for me personally that is about as far as I will go to 'blame' myself! it's not like I could have done anything different, I was, and am, healthy and ate and did all the right things. But it still happened, and even as a baby of around one I knew something about my child was 'different' I never thought it was a bad difference, just different than the other little girls. I just had no idea what it was until much later.

jessks75 wrote:

you know what, romad..........what do you care what i think???
This is My forum too right????
Or do my thoughts and what I type not count?????
I have my thoughts on it, whether they bring IT TO LIGHT or not, I dont agree with it.
Thats my right, the right that YOU fought for!! Thanks!!!

Whoa..did I miss something in this discussion? I'm trying to figure out what you are talking bout.

KS1 wrote:

Ratzilla,
A mother or father could never "secretly try to turn her boy into a girl" Gender identity is strong and consistent and evident as young as 1-2 years old... Think back...when did you know you were a boy or a girl? Gender identity just is. When you say you cant beleive a two year old would say they are the wrong gender is because you have never been in that situation or know someone who is transgender...you have never been around a child who is transgender. We are talking about kids who do KNOW they are in the wrong body and YES they do tell their parents. And the parents spend a lot of time not believing them....they think its a phase and try to convince their kids that they are not in the wrong body. The parents do not WANT this for their kids anymore than a parent would want their child to have autism are any other type of birth defect.

Mothers and fathers secretly abuse kids in any number of ways but still appear as the loving parents to all who observe. Munchausen by Proxy is a perfect example of that. When did I first know my gender? Most likely when my parents told me. And yes I still say a 2 year old can't comprehend a thing so complex that even adults who deal with it have difficulty understanding. You expect complex thought in a kid who's typical level of thought is trying to decide whether he likes that mushy feel of a turd in his drawers better than eating snot.

KitKat wrote:

jessks75 wrote:

you know what, romad..........what do you care what i think???
This is My forum too right????
Or do my thoughts and what I type not count?????
I have my thoughts on it, whether they bring IT TO LIGHT or not, I dont agree with it.
Thats my right, the right that YOU fought for!! Thanks!!!

Whoa..did I miss something in this discussion? I'm trying to figure out what you are talking bout.

I was talking to Romadbuff, sorry

RomadBuff,

Thank you for stating the obvious. I think we, as parents of trans kids, are so used to being bashed and insulted that we often expect the worst and it's so refreshing to read from someone who obviously has compassion and logic.

RomadBuff wrote:

Your not seriously going to compare a child that is gender confused with the total and complete brainwashing that leads a human being to attach explosives to his body and then detonates them in the middle of a crowd of people? I have a lot more respect for your opinions than to think that you posted this for no more than shock value.

I'm talking about parents teaching a kid to be what he wouldn't think of naturally. I wasn't saying being confused about gender was the same as wanting to blow someone up. I remember kids whose mothers made them wear dress clothes all the time and never let them get dirty. Those boys grew up being scared of their own shadows and lived in fantasy worlds. Suppose a mother really wanted a daughter and got a son, or a sister didn't really want a brother. And suppose that mother or sister is a touch unbalanced and is the primary caregiver in the first year or two. They could very well mentally train that child to think and act like the gender they wished it had been.

jessks75 wrote:

you know what, romad..........what do you care what i think???
This is My forum too right????
Or do my thoughts and what I type not count?????
I have my thoughts on it, whether they bring IT TO LIGHT or not, I don't agree with it.
Thats my right, the right that YOU fought for!! Thanks!!!

It is absolutely your forum Jess and your thoughts and opinions do count, I totally enjoy reading everything you guys have to say and I have never once said different, I simply asked you a question. You do not agree, that is certainly within your rights, but you do not have the right to just write something off as "wrong" because you do not agree with it and you certainly do not have the right to impose your sense of morality on anyone else.

I defended your right to free speech, I also defended the rights of others to live a life that they choose to live. I tell you here and now I do not agree with everything that is posted on this forum but I accept that people have the right to say it. I did not tell you that you were wrong, I simply asked you a question, why would it concern you? What is it about the situation that you find wrong? I did not say you could not profess your disagreement, I simply wanted to know why you think it would be any of your business if they choose to have a family later in life?

Let's put this in perspective. Once upon a time people did not think Women had the right to vote or hold jobs. Black people did not have the right to sit in the same restaurants as whites. They could not even use the same hospitals or emergency rooms. Handicap people were considered a subclass of peoples, given no rights at all. Kids confined to wheelchairs could not attend public schools because busses were not equipped to transport them to and from class. Schools had no access ramps, classroom doors were to narrow for wheelchairs to navigate. Where they right? Did they have the right to impose their sense of "morality" on others?

We try to be a country of tolerances. All I ask is that you show a little compassion for the "mothers" that are here to discuss and educate us by sharing their experiences.

Ratzilla wrote:

RomadBuff wrote:

Your not seriously going to compare a child that is gender confused with the total and complete brainwashing that leads a human being to attach explosives to his body and then detonates them in the middle of a crowd of people? I have a lot more respect for your opinions than to think that you posted this for no more than shock value.

I'm talking about parents teaching a kid to be what he wouldn't think of naturally. I wasn't saying being confused about gender was the same as wanting to blow someone up. I remember kids whose mothers made them wear dress clothes all the time and never let them get dirty. Those boys grew up being scared of their own shadows and lived in fantasy worlds. Suppose a mother really wanted a daughter and got a son, or a sister didn't really want a brother. And suppose that mother or sister is a touch unbalanced and is the primary caregiver in the first year or two. They could very well mentally train that child to think and act like the gender they wished it had been.

Again, I do not for one second doubt that there are parents that do just what you have described. But, you can not just lump all parents of transgendered children into that category.

Im not juding these people I just dont agree with it, I wouldnt be able to tell these kids/parents from any others.......I simply dont agree with what they are talking about!

Ratzilla wrote:

KS1 wrote:

Ratzilla,
A mother or father could never "secretly try to turn her boy into a girl" Gender identity is strong and consistent and evident as young as 1-2 years old... Think back...when did you know you were a boy or a girl? Gender identity just is. When you say you cant beleive a two year old would say they are the wrong gender is because you have never been in that situation or know someone who is transgender...you have never been around a child who is transgender. We are talking about kids who do KNOW they are in the wrong body and YES they do tell their parents. And the parents spend a lot of time not believing them....they think its a phase and try to convince their kids that they are not in the wrong body. The parents do not WANT this for their kids anymore than a parent would want their child to have autism are any other type of birth defect.

Mothers and fathers secretly abuse kids in any number of ways but still appear as the loving parents to all who observe. Munchausen by Proxy is a perfect example of that. When did I first know my gender? Most likely when my parents told me. And yes I still say a 2 year old can't comprehend a thing so complex that even adults who deal with it have difficulty understanding. You expect complex thought in a kid who's typical level of thought is trying to decide whether he likes that mushy feel of a turd in his drawers better than eating snot.

You greatly underestimate the mind of a small child. But I agree, had this not happened to my own family I would find it hard to believe, and I was of the generation whose parents didn't think a child actually had their own thoughts until they were in their 20s, but that's another story;-)

Still, I don't think anyone is saying that their child had the whole complexity of gender figured out by age 2 and was verbalizing it. But I do believe that many other parents can tell you that a more complex verbalization did start at around 6 or 7. ANd if their child was very verbal or highly intelligent I would expect that at a younger age. MY child did not tell me he was a boy at age 2, but I no longer doubt parents that say their child did. But my child did 'feel' in some way that he was different. Certainly by age 4 there was an obvious gravitation towards all 'boy' stuff.

But I would ask you to really consider when it was that you knew you were a boy, girl, straight, whatever? I would think most people had a pretty good idea really early on. I do not identify as being female because my parents said I was. nor do I identify as straight because my parents said I should be. I could no more change either of those things than I could change my eye color, height, or which hand I write with. Believe me, as a mom, if I could change this in my child I would. But I have done enough reading on the matter, and talked to enough people, that have experience with the situation, that I now know it cannot be changed. And if I care about my child I will go with what they ARE not with what I would like them to be.

As for Munchausen...I don't even know how a parent COULD do this to their child. I mean you would really have to beat it into them , literally, to make them attempt to identify with something other than what they already feel. I don't know about the other parents but for us we have seen many a doc or psychologist trying to figure out why our child was so miserable and having panic attacks, and other assorted distress. When we finally got this diagnosis, which actually didn't take long for them to figure out, I'm pretty sure at least one of those docs could have been able to tell if we were 'doing' this to our child. Besides which, anyone who knows me personally knows I would be incapable of doing such a thing. I'm waaay to busy and I NEVER wanted to have to add this to my plate! But it's there.

jessks75 wrote:

Im not juding these people I just dont agree with it, I wouldnt be able to tell these kids/parents from any others.......I simply dont agree with what they are talking about!

Could you please tell us EXACTLY what it is you do not agree with? Who are 'they'? Is it me, a mom of a transgender child? If so, what am I talking about that you do not agree with?

I for one am glad to be a member of this site that allows us to get together and discuss these issues. We have alot of parents in the group so making them aware of GID may help them.

LuvMyTransSon wrote:

Our gender is something that we know from a very young age. No one had to tell me I was female, just as no one had to tell you that you were male..

Not unless you are taught. Put a baby in total isolation and never speak to them and 5 years later they won't know anything but how to eat and foul their pants. They would have no comprehension of gender because it was never taught to them.

LuvMyTransSon wrote:

Scientific research has concluded that there are differences within the brains of transgendered people from those of normative gendered individuals. Within this research a transgendered male-to-female will equivantly possess findings that comparatively equal normative female gendered brains. Such is the same for female-to-male transgendered individuals matching findings of those in normative male gendered brains.

There are also research studies indicating hormonal influx during inutero gestation that adversely affects the development of transgenderendered babies. Other studies indicate that (in layman's terms) a simple mismatch or wires-crossing occurred when the baby's sex is determined the brain does not receive the correct information. Therefore, the biological gender does not match the brain gender.

Some consider the birth of a transgender child to be no more than a birth defect, as the mismatch occurs during gestation. Such being the case, why then should we look any differently at a transgender born child thane we would that of a child born with Downs' Syndrome or Spina Bifida? We shouldn't, should we?

Some scientists also think pedophiles are hardwired to the predisposition even before birth, and that the presence of certain genetic factors make them what they are, but I bet you won't call it something we need to understand and accept.

I don't mean that I'm comparing the two, just that being genetically disposed to something doesn't mean you always have to be that way. I do believe a male can have feminine ways, or vice verse. Even a very masculine man can have a feminine habit. But I tend to think events in a childs life are a big factor in how they develop. A bright happy child can become permanently timid because a dog scares them. An active rambunctious boy can become withdrawn and begin to prefer his mothers company if his brothers treat him too roughly. I really think this is alot more complex than just deciding at 2 years old that you got the wrong sex organs.

I knew a little girl that insisted she was a fairy princess for a long time and got mad if anyone said she wasn't. Should she have been mentally and physically prepared by parents and therapists to look forward to her wings growing?

One of my nieces used to tell everyone she was a dog, not a kid. She called her breakfast cereal puppy chow and insisted on licking all of the family instead of giving kisses. That lasted for months. Should we have gotten her spayed and walked her around on a leash?

[quote="RomadBuff"]

jessks75 wrote:

Let's put this in perspective. Once upon a time people did not think Women had the right to vote or hold jobs. Black people did not have the right to sit in the same restaurants as whites. They could not even use the same hospitals or emergency rooms. Handicap people were considered a subclass of peoples, given no rights at all. Kids confined to wheelchairs could not attend public schools because busses were not equipped to transport them to and from class. Schools had no access ramps, classroom doors were to narrow for wheelchairs to navigate. Where they right? Did they have the right to impose their sense of "morality" on others?

We try to be a country of tolerances. All I ask is that you show a little compassion for the "mothers" that are here to discuss and educate us by sharing their experiences.

Exactly!
And as one of the 'mothers' Thank you.
As for why anyone should be so concerned about such personal issues in another person's life... I just don't know. I live on a street that has a gay male couple living a few houses down. I hear some people rant and rave about how they should not be allowed to marry, but I have to ask, why NOT? and why do you care whether or not the guys down the street, who have been together for over 20 years, which is longer than any of the straight couples around here, get married or not? How exactly does this affect anyone except those living the situation?

The only way I can think is that if we don't support the rights of the minority, the less powerful, the silent, then we are all diminished.

Ratzilla wrote:

LuvMyTransSon wrote:

Our gender is something that we know from a very young age. No one had to tell me I was female, just as no one had to tell you that you were male..

Not unless you are taught. Put a baby in total isolation and never speak to them and 5 years later they won't know anything but how to eat and foul their pants. They would have no comprehension of gender because it was never taught to them.

LuvMyTransSon wrote:

Scientific research has concluded that there are differences within the brains of transgendered people from those of normative gendered individuals. Within this research a transgendered male-to-female will equivantly possess findings that comparatively equal normative female gendered brains. Such is the same for female-to-male transgendered individuals matching findings of those in normative male gendered brains.

There are also research studies indicating hormonal influx during inutero gestation that adversely affects the development of transgenderendered babies. Other studies indicate that (in layman's terms) a simple mismatch or wires-crossing occurred when the baby's sex is determined the brain does not receive the correct information. Therefore, the biological gender does not match the brain gender.

Some consider the birth of a transgender child to be no more than a birth defect, as the mismatch occurs during gestation. Such being the case, why then should we look any differently at a transgender born child thane we would that of a child born with Downs' Syndrome or Spina Bifida? We shouldn't, should we?

Some scientists also think pedophiles are hardwired to the predisposition even before birth, and that the presence of certain genetic factors make them what they are, but I bet you won't call it something we need to understand and accept.

I don't mean that I'm comparing the two, just that being genetically disposed to something doesn't mean you always have to be that way. I do believe a male can have feminine ways, or vice verse. Even a very masculine man can have a feminine habit. But I tend to think events in a childs life are a big factor in how they develop. A bright happy child can become permanently timid because a dog scares them. An active rambunctious boy can become withdrawn and begin to prefer his mothers company if his brothers treat him too roughly. I really think this is alot more complex than just deciding at 2 years old that you got the wrong sex organs.

I knew a little girl that insisted she was a fairy princess for a long time and got mad if anyone said she wasn't. Should she have been mentally and physically prepared by parents and therapists to look forward to her wings growing?

One of my nieces used to tell everyone she was a dog, not a kid. She called her breakfast cereal puppy chow and insisted on licking all of the family instead of giving kisses. That lasted for months. Should we have gotten her spayed and walked her around on a leash?

Yup

Ratzilla wrote:

KS1 wrote:

Ratzilla,
A mother or father could never "secretly try to turn her boy into a girl" Gender identity is strong and consistent and evident as young as 1-2 years old... Think back...when did you know you were a boy or a girl? Gender identity just is. When you say you cant beleive a two year old would say they are the wrong gender is because you have never been in that situation or know someone who is transgender...you have never been around a child who is transgender. We are talking about kids who do KNOW they are in the wrong body and YES they do tell their parents. And the parents spend a lot of time not believing them....they think its a phase and try to convince their kids that they are not in the wrong body. The parents do not WANT this for their kids anymore than a parent would want their child to have autism are any other type of birth defect.

Mothers and fathers secretly abuse kids in any number of ways but still appear as the loving parents to all who observe. Munchausen by Proxy is a perfect example of that. When did I first know my gender? Most likely when my parents told me. And yes I still say a 2 year old can't comprehend a thing so complex that even adults who deal with it have difficulty understanding. You expect complex thought in a kid who's typical level of thought is trying to decide whether he likes that mushy feel of a turd in his drawers better than eating snot.

I can understand the concern of possible abuse, and it is a common concern that people have around this subject. It doesn't apply here for a few reasons: 1) There is very strong existing evidence that a person cannot be "brainwashed" into truly believing they are the opposite gender. The psychological perception of gender is truly innate. A person could be intimidated into superficially behaving like the opposite gender, but it would not change their innate sense of "self". This is the very reason that "reparative" therapies aimed at trying to make these children comfortable with the gender indicated by their biological sex have failed. 2) If such abuse existed, it could be detected during counseling because it would cause severe emotional problems. In contrast children who are truly TG are happier and more healthy mentally, however odd that may sound, after being allowed to transition than before. So, the child's emotional state is exactly the opposite of what would be expected in an abusive situation. 3) It is the children who inform the parents, once they are old enough to do so, that they are in fact the opposite gender.

2-year-olds don't comprehend all of this at a conscious thinking level. At that age, they simply have an inner sense of "self" and mimic behavior they pick up from people who represent the same gender. Perhaps some of it is also instinct, since the leading theory currently is that they have a brain that is actually that of the opposite gender, with regard to certain brain structures. At that young age, it is also near impossible to determine if the child is TG or they are simply pretending. It isn't until they get older that they develop enough to really begin becoming extremely uncomfortable with their "assigned" gender, start acting out because of it, and eventually let their parents know in one way or another what is going on with them.

The reason you and I don't remember when we knew what gender we were, or remember it being a big deal, is because we always knew what gender we were from the earliest days. It was never a big deal, because our body and mind were in agreement. Life is very different for these children, even from the earliest days that their brains begin to function fully.

Jess,
I agree with KitKat...imagine what you would have to do to a child to get them to say they are the other gender?? Even if you got a child to say that....you could not MAKE them like the gender appriate toys, walk like a boy, ect, ect. My childs dad and I tried for years to convince who we thought was our son that "he" was in fact a boy and not the girl "he" said "he" was since the age of two.. It failed miserably....instead we got a severly depressed and troubled child...and what we thought and hoped was a phase never went away.
We got professional help...and have seen and talked to many experts who would of been able to tell if we were forcing this on our child...(and we continue to see a therapist by the way.) I know of several cases and families living with GID and I do not know ONE case where the child was abused. These kids are coming from stable, nurturing envrionments. There is no doubt in my mind that our daughter was born this way. And she is a happy, beautiful girl!
Jess, please wathc that 20/20 show..it is very educational and it is my families story exactly.

Ratzilla wrote:

Some scientists also think pedophiles are hardwired to the predisposition even before birth, and that the presence of certain genetic factors make them what they are, but I bet you won't call it something we need to understand and accept.

I don't mean that I'm comparing the two, just that being genetically disposed to something doesn't mean you always have to be that way. I do believe a male can have feminine ways, or vice verse. Even a very masculine man can have a feminine habit. But I tend to think events in a childs life are a big factor in how they develop. A bright happy child can become permanently timid because a dog scares them. An active rambunctious boy can become withdrawn and begin to prefer his mothers company if his brothers treat him too roughly. I really think this is alot more complex than just deciding at 2 years old that you got the wrong sex organs.

I knew a little girl that insisted she was a fairy princess for a long time and got mad if anyone said she wasn't. Should she have been mentally and physically prepared by parents and therapists to look forward to her wings growing?

One of my nieces used to tell everyone she was a dog, not a kid. She called her breakfast cereal puppy chow and insisted on licking all of the family instead of giving kisses. That lasted for months. Should we have gotten her spayed and walked her around on a leash?

First, TG people are not hurting anyone, so there is no reason to lock them up for public safety.

These kids often become suicidal, often as young children, if they are forced to live as what they feel is the wrong gender.

A little girl pretending to be a princess is not at all the same thing. She has no innate sense of "self" that she is a princess. She is not going to continue pretending that for year after year. She is not going to become suicidal if you don't let her live as a princess all the time.

If you think that gender affiliation can be taught, consider what happens with hermaphrodites, who are born with sex organs from both sexes. Immediately after birth, the doctor has to make a choice, and usually the child is assigned as female because the surgery is eaasier. Some of those children grow up fine, while others experience severe gender dysphoria. That is because the doctor had no way of knowing at the time whether he was dealing with a child having a male brain, or a female brain.

All of these anamolous situations convince me that there is a definite psychological component to gender. It cannot possibly be determined merely by what kind of genitilia you happen to be born with.

So does the same apply to transrace and transspecies?

Ratzilla wrote:

LuvMyTransSon wrote:

Our gender is something that we know from a very young age. No one had to tell me I was female, just as no one had to tell you that you were male..

Not unless you are taught. Put a baby in total isolation and never speak to them and 5 years later they won't know anything but how to eat and foul their pants. They would have no comprehension of gender because it was never taught to them.

One of my nieces used to tell everyone she was a dog, not a kid. She called her breakfast cereal puppy chow and insisted on licking all of the family instead of giving kisses. That lasted for months. Should we have gotten her spayed and walked her around on a leash?

So does your first statement mean that I didn't 'teach' my child how to be a girl. Believe me I tried! That little baby was in pink all the time, I was so very very happy to have had a girl, or what I thought was a girl at the time. Do you suppose I did it all wrong but got it right the second and that's why my other child is such a princess? Our family is fairly conventional. I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything weird to make my child develop this way.

As for your niece, I would have to ask 'How long'? My child also went through phases. There was the spiderman phase, wore nothing but spiderman costume everyday for months. Then there was the leopard phase, much like your niece's phase, was even happy when he developed a rash from a reaction to a medicine and was sad to see the 'leopard spots' go away. But that also was a few months. My child claiming to be a boy but born with 'mistake' parts has gone on for years, he's 10 now and no sign of letting up.

I know you are not in this situation but I'd like to ask you to try to imagine for a moment what you would do if you were? If you say you would 'force' gender approrpriate behavior I can tell you that you will have one VERY miserable kid.

In my opinion, no matter how many parts you add remove or modify. you are still the male or female you started out as, it's just cosmetics, not a sex change.

nitromaxx98 wrote:

So does the same apply to transrace and transspecies?

What does that mean? Is transrace a person of mixed races, as in biracial, triracial, or whatever? What is transspecies? I have never heard of such a thing.

Transrace is a white person wanting to be black, or any variation there of involving all races. Transspecies is self explanitory.

Jess,
Im sorry I addressed an earlier post to you...that I meant for Ratzilla.
Ratizilla, will you please watch that 20/20 show

nitromaxx98 wrote:

Transrace is a white person wanting to be black, or any variation there of involving all races. Transspecies is self explanitory.

Hummm, Ok.

Well this is not an issue of 'wanting' to be. I don't think there are people of different races that say they ARE the other race, they might WANT to be for whatever reason but children that are TG feel it at their most inner being that they ARE the other sex and they 'don't feel right' as my then 8 year old used to say. At first i did get 'I want to be a boy' but without any input from me it soon turned into 'I think something is really wrong with me', to eventually identifying it as 'Mommy, I think something went wrong in your belly'. I don't know if anyone that has not been through this can imagine how painful that is to hear.

Anyway, TG or not I gotta get him to school early , G'night all

school? Isn't school out? hehe

nobodysbusiness wrote:

school? Isn't school out? hehe

Not in California.

KitKat wrote:

As for your niece, I would have to ask 'How long'? My child also went through phases. There was the spiderman phase, wore nothing but spiderman costume everyday for months. Then there was the leopard phase, much like your niece's phase, was even happy when he developed a rash from a reaction to a medicine and was sad to see the 'leopard spots' go away. But that also was a few months. My child claiming to be a boy but born with 'mistake' parts has gone on for years, he's 10 now and no sign of letting up.

I can answer the questions two of you are posing by answering this. When your child did the spiderman and leopard phases, did you take them to a therapist? Did you treat these phases the way you did the gender issue? What message did you and those therapists send to the child that you didn't during the spiderman leopard times? Think about that.....

KitKat wrote:

I know you are not in this situation but I'd like to ask you to try to imagine for a moment what you would do if you were? If you say you would 'force' gender approrpriate behavior I can tell you that you will have one VERY miserable kid.

When I or one of the other kids were wanting something really bad and refused to give in my mother had a way of handling it. She usually said "They want ice water in hell too, but they aren't getting it either." Pretty much took care of any situation.

KitKat wrote:

nitromaxx98 wrote:

Transrace is a white person wanting to be black, or any variation there of involving all races. Transspecies is self explanitory.

Hummm, Ok.

Well this is not an issue of 'wanting' to be. I don't think there are people of different races that say they ARE the other race, they might WANT to be for whatever reason but children that are TG feel it at their most inner being that they ARE the other sex and they 'don't feel right' as my then 8 year old used to say. At first i did get 'I want to be a boy' but without any input from me it soon turned into 'I think something is really wrong with me', to eventually identifying it as 'Mommy, I think something went wrong in your belly'. I don't know if anyone that has not been through this can imagine how painful that is to hear.

Anyway, TG or not I gotta get him to school early , G'night all

Given that same concept, if I believe I am ruler of the world, medication and surgery will make it so.

OpenMinded wrote:

Ratzilla wrote:

Some scientists also think pedophiles are hardwired to the predisposition even before birth, and that the presence of certain genetic factors make them what they are, but I bet you won't call it something we need to understand and accept.

First, TG people are not hurting anyone, so there is no reason to lock them up for public safety.

Not all pedophiles molest kids. Not what the talk shows tell us, but true. Which shows that you make judgements too.

OpenMinded wrote:

A little girl pretending to be a princess is not at all the same thing. She has no innate sense of "self" that she is a princess. She is not going to continue pretending that for year after year.

No, because she won't have weekly visits to a therapist backing up her fantasy, nor hormone shots, nor parents who treat her like she really is one.

Ratzilla
just watch the show...there are trans kids in Hays KS...just educate yourself please...your not getting it at all.

There are trans kids and adults in every state...it doesnt just happen in "California" ...it is a serious MEDICAL condition.

I watched the Barbara Walters segments. One mother just reinforced my opinion. She said her son would speak of growing up and having babies, but she said of course it would never happen because he could never become pregnant. He's a boy wanting to be what he's not. His mom knows that yet she continues to let him believe it. She is his biggest problem.

As I said, don't make fun of this, or punish them. But don't keep saying yes son, you really are a girl, or that will surely be what you get. You parents of these kids are promoting a fantasy. An English man can convert himself to speak, think, and live as if he were born Chinese. But he will always be an English man playing pretend.