Israel

If all the Palestinian refugees and their descendants (estimates range between 5 and 8 million people) were to return to their original home within Israel this would lead to a demographic shift which would end Israel's status as a Jewish state, as Israel's current population is composed of about 5.8 million Jews and 1.3 million Muslim and Christian Palestinian Arabs.

Even if a smaller number of refugees were to return, as little as one million, this would still alter Israel's character as a Jewish state. A very large majority of Jewish Israelis find this prospect unacceptable. They see the demand for a Palestinian Right of Return as merely another, more subtle way of arguing for the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state, and demand that the Palestinians recognize that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish-majority state. Most Israelis virtually equate the Right of Return with Israel's destruction. A minority, however, believe that if Israel were to acknowledge a right of return, the ensuing changes might be positive for Israelis and Palestinians alike [13]. Supporters of the right to return claim that if a Jew born in America has the right to immigrate to Palestine/Israel, a Palestinian born in a refugee camp should have the right to return to his or her homeland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return#Israel

Rog wrote:

Supporters of the right to return claim that if a Jew born in America has the right to immigrate to Palestine/Israel, a Palestinian born in a refugee camp should have the right to return to his or her homeland.

But if the majority of American born Jews returned to the homeland of their ancestors they'd end up in Russia or Eastern Europe. Most modern Jews are only connected to Israel by religion. How many European looking Palestinians are there?

Ratzilla wrote:

How many European looking Palestinians are there?

A bunch of them. Esp. in France and England.

Are they claiming to be Palestinian, but of Euro descent? If so they aren't Palestinians, just Muslims pretending to be.

A Muslim is not a nationality, as neither is a Jew.

A Palestinian can be of any religion.

mikecc wrote:

A Muslim is not a nationality, as neither is a Jew.

Agreed.

mikecc wrote:

A Palestinian can be of any religion.

But he can't claim Palestine as his homeland unless his ancestors came from there. Most I see living in Palestine and claiming it as a homeland look to be of Middle Eastern descent. Some Jews in Israel do also, but a great many of them appear to be of other origins.

Anyone practicing a Hebrew/Muslim/Christian religion can claim their religion originated there, but it does not make it their homeland. Now if anyone of those three religions can trace the family tree to that region, then yes, it could be their ancestral homeland. But the majority of Jews nowdays are a product of a massive conversion to the Hebrew religion a few centuries ago in Russia and Eastern Europe. They have no genealogical ties to Israel whatsoever.

Ratzilla wrote:

But he can't claim Palestine as his homeland unless his ancestors came from there. Most I see living in Palestine and claiming it as a homeland look to be of Middle Eastern descent. Some Jews in Israel do also, but a great many of them appear to be of other origins.

Anyone practicing a Hebrew/Muslim/Christian religion can claim their religion originated there, but it does not make it their homeland. Now if anyone of those three religions can trace the family tree to that region, then yes, it could be their ancestral homeland. But the majority of Jews nowdays are a product of a massive conversion to the Hebrew religion a few centuries ago in Russia and Eastern Europe. They have no genealogical ties to Israel whatsoever.

The Jews are known for their ability to trace their lineage to biblical times. To biblical places. If I am not mistaken, Israel and Gaza, and the West Bank, and the whole area IS the middle east, so of course people look to be of Middle Eastern descent.

How far back in a persons ancestry does a person have to have a relative actually born in said lands to qualify for homeland status? Does more than one relative must hail from these lands, or does just one relative qualify?

Some Jews can no doubt trace ancestry to the region. But most can't and still be telling the truth. And one who's ancestors only converted to the Hebrew religion and were from Russia or Eastern Europe have no basis for calling Israel their homeland except for the brand of voodoo they practice.

Once you move there and a child is born, then Bam! Homeland Baby!!!

Genetic studies of DNA

Despite the evident diversity displayed by the world's distinct Jewish populations, both culturally and physically, genetic studies have demonstrated most of these to be genetically related to one another, having ultimately originated from a common ancient Israelite population that underwent geographic branching and subsequent independent evolutions.

from Wikipedia.

Bullshit. Hebrews moving into other regions of the continent does not mean the Russians or Europeans who simply converted to that religion have the same ancestry.

Quote :

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The genus Australopithecus (Latin australis "of the south", Greek πίθηκος pithekos "ape") is a genus of extinct hominids, made up of the gracile australopiths, and formerly also included their larger relatives, the robust australopiths (which are now given their own genus). The genus Australopithecus is closely related to the human genus Homo, and may be ancestral to it.

The fossil record seems to indicate that Australopithecus is the common ancestor of the distinct group of hominids, now called Paranthropus (the "robust australopiths"), and most likely the genus Homo which includes modern humans.

Damn mike, I guess that makes you a nig don't it?

A negro is not a human. A negro is like an ape, or a chimp. A negro is a savage from the dark heart of africa. Like calling a cat, a dog. Again with your Apple to Watermelon comparisons.

The Jewish faith is for the most part carried on thru time thru family lines. When the Jew went forth and multiplied and tamed the world, the Jew bred with those that they taught. Sharing their God given claim to the homeland. And all their descendants.

Despite the evident diversity displayed by the world's distinct Jewish populations, both culturally and physically, genetic studies have demonstrated most of these to be genetically related to one another, having ultimately originated from a common ancient Israelite population that underwent geographic branching and subsequent independent evolutions.

Your source, Wikipedia, says that all jews share genetics, and that we all share genetics with prehistoric Africans. The same source you quote from says yer a nig mike.

Ahhhh............. you found the missing link?

How far back in a persons ancestry does a person have to have a relative actually born in said lands to qualify for homeland status? Does more than one relative must hail from these lands, or does just one relative qualify?

I'm sure there has been mixing of the old inhabitants from Israel and their Russo/Euro counterparts. But it doesn't change the fact that most of the Jews in Russia and Europe 2 or 3 hundred years ago had no roots in Israel.

Let me explain it this way. My dads great great grandparents and their great great grandparents came from what is now Germany. Some of my moms came from England and Scotland. So I suppose I can claim ties to all three places. But I do not claim them as my homeland. My parents were born and raised here, as was I. This is my homeland.

If I were to marry a Jewish woman from the US and have kids, I would teach them that their homeland is here, and that while they may have distant ties to other nations it does not make them German, British, Russian, Israeli, or anything else. They would be Americans and this would be their homeland.

Taking them on a trip to Germany, or Israel to see where their ancestors came from is one thing. But if I were to go to Germany and tell them Germany belongs to me because I had relatives come from there 143 years ago they'd tell me to get hosed.

Jews in Russia and Europe 2 or 3 hundred years ago had no roots in Israel? Sure they did. They too are genetically related to one another, having ultimately originated from a common ancient Israelite population that underwent geographic branching and subsequent independent evolutions.

Ratzilla wrote:

My dads great great grandparents and their great great grandparents came from what is now Germany. Some of my moms came from England and Scotland. So I suppose I can claim ties to all three places. But I do not claim them as my homeland. My parents were born and raised here, as was I. This is my homeland.

After you have ripped it from the Native Americans hands, thru hook and crook and warfare, both conventional, and biological.

So.......... America is like Palestine, and you are like the Jew.

You choose your homeland.

No mike, I did not rip anything from the hands of the Native American. I and my parents were born here long after the Indian wars were over, and there's no records I've seen of any of my family fighting in those wars. That's as silly as blacks blaming me for slavery that was abolished almost 100 years before I was born. Do you feel guilty over slavery mike? Which Native American tribe did you kill or cheat to get your land?

So as long as somebody takes the land of who ever is living there it is ok for people to move in and start to populate it and call it theirs? Oklahoma was Indian Territory up until 1907.

My ancestors (my grandparents many generations up) are traced back to the Revolutionary War, and many Indian skirmishes. They also bought and sold slaves. Ahhhh...the good ole days....

You have no more the right to call America your Homeland as does a Jew who is only 2nd generation native to the land to call their little part of palenstine/israel their homeland?

The Native Americans took land from each other in wars too. And the archeologists think all Native Americans originated in Asia. Why don't Native Americans call Asia the homeland? Because they were born here mike. This land changed hands many a times starting with tribal wars, but once again, all before I or my parents were born. Just what land do you suppose I'd call my homeland if not where I was born? Pretty silly to call Germany or Britain my homeland since I and my parents were born in KS and never even been there.

And I never said a Jew born in Israel had no right to call it their homeland. If they were born there it's obviously their homeland. I say some blond haired blue eyed Jewish New Yorker, or some Russian Jew who's ancestors never saw the land have no reason to consider it their homeland.

Genetic studies of DNA

Despite the evident diversity displayed by the world's distinct Jewish populations, both culturally and physically, genetic studies have demonstrated most of these to be genetically related to one another, having ultimately originated from a common ancient Israelite population that underwent geographic branching and subsequent independent evolutions.

from Wikipedia.

Don't forget this mike.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The genus Australopithecus (Latin australis "of the south", Greek πίθηκος pithekos "ape") is a genus of extinct hominids, made up of the gracile australopiths, and formerly also included their larger relatives, the robust australopiths (which are now given their own genus). The genus Australopithecus is closely related to the human genus Homo, and may be ancestral to it.

The fossil record seems to indicate that Australopithecus is the common ancestor of the distinct group of hominids, now called Paranthropus (the "robust australopiths"), and most likely the genus Homo which includes modern humans.

Had any urge to go back to the African homeland and drink cows blood with your bros? After all, if Wikipedia says it's what scientists think you musta had an aunt Jemima somewhere in the ancestry.

For what it's worth mike, I don't buy that we're all from African roots, nor do I believe all Jews have blood ties to Israel. I think they are both statements of political correctness contaminating science.

Willy Peter in Gaza

link

closely related

may be

seems to

most likely

Not words of concrete evidence.

From Wikipedia also. They appear to contradict themselves.

Quote :

In the early 19th century, a number of communities appeared in Tula, Voronezh and Tambov, which followed Jewish traditions and halacha. They were also called zhidovstvuyuschiye and were persecuted severely in the times of Nicolas I. Since the beginning of the 20th century, they have been also called iudeystvuyuschie, from iudeystvo, a neutral term for Jewish religion. Now they are generally considered a part of Jewish people (although with no real Israelite descent) and some of them have emigrated to Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sect_of_Skhariya_the_Jew

When the Jew went forth and multiplied and tamed the world, the Jew bred with those that they taught. Sharing their God given claim to the homeland. And all their descendants.

Oh lord thats freakin funny!!

Neither one of you guys is bothering to mention that the balfour document sets out the basic tenets for all of this and it was agreed upon. Israelis renigged on a few key points and we are where we are today.

Rog wrote:

Neither one of you guys is bothering to mention that the balfour document sets out the basic tenets for all of this and it was agreed upon. Israelis renigged on a few key points and we are where we are today.

From page 1....

Ratzilla wrote:

It's a fight that's been going on since the days of Ancient Rome and Egypt. But if we look at things just from the time of the Balfour Declaration it tends to show that the arabs were not treated as intended.

The British had intended that existing cultures were not to be mistreated in regards to civil or religious rights. Yet the existing arabs were not given any say in whether the area was to be a Jewish homeland so that was basically violation #1.

After WWI and during the rise of the Nazis, Jewish settlement increased dramatically and they began buying land and prohibited Arabs from working at Jewish owned farms or businesses. The arabs complained that the British favored the Jews and were not doing anything about it.

This led to persecution of Jews by Arabs and the Hebron Massacre where many Jews were killed. The British later reduced the number of Jewish immigrants allowed in as an attempt to stop hostilities, but illegal Jewish immigration continued and after WWII the Jewish migration exploded and the Israeli state was made official. I don't excuse many of the things the Arabs have done But if I were the Arabs, I'd probably hate Israel too.

my bad. they also refused to pay for the land they had been given permission to settle as part of the deal. Funny thing is; they had to look for a place they could put the jews because they had been run out of every country they ever went to because of their economic warfare practices against their host nations. I think its time for economic sanctions against the terrorist state of Israel to force them into compliance.

Man the more I read on current affairs inside Israel the more I find out that the rabbi's are not overly fond of the zionist government either. Alot of inner turmoil among the Jews. It's like the Zionists will accept anyone who will claim Judaism just so they can push out more Palestinians, but the orthodox members of the community are upset saying that they aren't real Jews. There's some 350,000 Russians claiming Jewish roots living in Isreal, but they havn't converted, and the rabbis are upset that they will ruin things by marrying true Jews and having a nation full of Jews that aren't really. Kinda like Jewish mutts. LOL This stuff should make the evening news.

Hamas ran out of rockets. They will be restocking.

Okay....got the payout schedule from Hamas.....$1,300 for a death in the family, $650 for an injury, $5,200 for a destroyed house and $2,600 for a damaged house.

link

There's a good line for GW since he equated terrorists with drugs. Remember, if you buy drugs you may just be helping families bombed by Israel....

Quote :

Any Israeli soldiers accused of war crimes in the Gaza Strip will be given state protection from prosecution overseas, the country's PM has said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7850085.stm

A dead raghead in Gaza is worth $1,300, but a dead persian in Afghanistan is worth $2,666.66. Twice as much. Go figure

link

mikecc wrote:

A dead raghead in Gaza is worth $1,300, but a dead persian in Afghanistan is worth $2,666.66. Twice as much. Go figure

link

That's because our government is paying them to shut up in Afghanistan.