I am my own Neighbor

LukeTHr wrote:

I think it will still draw enough out that it will nullify itself. kinda like a perpetual motion machine. To be able to work, there would have to be an ecxess of energy put in and only a lesser amount will be obtained. At least thats my belief.

With thinking like that, Edison would have never invented the pocket playmate.
You gotta think outside the box. A standard train takes alot of energy to make it run even 50 MPH and the drag of keeping it's massive weight rolling is largely why. But run on a magnetic cushion, it's very different. Don't think just hydro, or just air power. Think a combination of things like reducing friction with magnets, air cushions, etc.

So once again, wind seems to be a viable form of alternative energy with the exception of those who claim that flicker and noise will cause damage to humans.

Seems to me to be proven that fossil fuels cause much more harm.

nitromaxx98 wrote:

So once again, wind seems to be a viable form of alternative energy with the exception of those who claim that flicker and noise will cause damage to humans.

The mental disturbance of having to see Rosie O'Donnel, Joan Rivers, or Michael Jackson on TV for 5 seconds is worse than 24 hours of turbine flicker. And 1 minute of a country star trying to force notes past the snot in their sinuses is worse that a week of turbine noises.

But nobody cares about my mental anguish.

nitromaxx98 wrote:

So once again, wind seems to be a viable form of alternative energy with the exception of those who claim that flicker and noise will cause damage to humans.

Seems to me to be proven that fossil fuels cause much more harm.

If the flicker and noise are harmless, why do they mention them in the good neighbor agreement as something you can not (legally speaking) complain about except to Iberdrola. Why would Iberdrola offer concessions for a condition that does not exist?


Wind Farm Neighbor Agreement
This Wind Farm Neighbor Agreement ("Agreement") is entered into as of the date set forth below, between (i) Hays Wind LLC, a Delaware limited liability company authorized to do business in State of Kansas ("Hays Wind") and solely owned by Iberdrola Renewable Energies USA, and (ii) the property owner(s) signing this Agreement below ("Owner").
1. Background.
(a) HAYS WIND is developing a wind energy project located in Ellis County, Kansas, expected to consist of wind turbines (turbine) with a total nameplate capacity of approximately 200 MW and associated towers, substations, service roads, power collection and transmission facilities, and other fixtures, equipment and improvements (the "Project"), the description of which is as set forth in the application to Ellis County for a Conditional Use Permit.
(b) Owner owns certain real property located near the Project (the "Property"). The legal description of the Property is set forth on Exhibit A.
(c) HAYS WIND will build and operate the Project in accordance with prudent, generally-recognized wind industry practices, including with respect to minimizing the side-effects of the operation of the Project. HAYS WIND does not expect that these side effects will exceed industry standards regarding noise, shadow, flicker or television interference, but Owner understands and accepts that operation of the Project may have some impact on the Project's neighbors.
(d) HAYS WIND and Owner wish to enter into a mutually beneficial agreement regarding the Project and its potential impact on the Property.
2. Easements; Covenants.
(a) Noise Easement. Owner grants to HAYS 'WIND a "Noise Easement" for the right and privilege to generate and maintain audible wind turbine noise levels on and above the Property in excess of forty-five (45) dB(A) at any or all times of the night ("Noise Easement") and in excess of fifty (50) dB(A) at any or all times of the day. Day hours shall be defined as those from 7:00AM to 11:00PM and night hours shall be defined as those from 11:00PM to 7:00AM. If, twenty percent or more of the time on an annual basis, noise levels emanating from the turbines exceed forty-five (45) dB(A) during the night or fifty (50) dB(A) during the day thirty (30) feet from the outer wall of any presently existing occupied residence on Owner's Property, as measured by an independent professional as agreed to by both HAYS WIND and Owner and at the expense of HAYS WIND applying commonly accepted measurement instruments and standards, HAYS WIND shall take all commercially reasonable measures to reduce the turbine caused noise level 30 feet from the outer wall of the residence to forty-five (45) dB(A) during the night and fifty (50) dB(A) during the day so that such levels are exceeded less than twenty percent of the time on an annual basis. Reasonable measures to be taken by HAYS WIND may include installing landscaping, insulation or other sound barriers at agreed locations on or off Owner's Property; installing insulation or sound deadening material in the offending turbine(s); or, changing the operation of the turbine(s) to reduce noise output.
(b) Light and Shadow Easement. Owner grants HAYS WIND a "Light and Shadow Easement" for the right and privilege to cast light from FAA required lighting and shadows of the turbine towers and rotors and Met Towers, wherever located, onto Owner's Property. If in

Owner's reasonable judgment the light and shadows cast at any presently occupied residence on Owner's Property substantially interfere with the use and enjoyment of the residence, HAYS WIND shall promptly investigate the nature and extent of the problem and the best and commercially reasonable methods of correcting any problems found to exist. HAYS WIND, at its expense, with agreement of Owner, will then promptly undertake reasonable measures such as tree planting or installation of awnings, draperies or other window treatments necessary to mitigate the effects of the offending light or shadow.
(c) Television Reception. Owner grants to HAYS WIND the right to test television signal strength and reception at any residence on the Property before and at reasonable intervals after HAYS WIND builds the Project. In the event that existence or operation of the Project significantly interferes with or degrades television signal reception at any residence on the Property, HAYS WIND shall at its expense, with the full cooperation of Owner, promptly investigate and within a reasonable time find reasonable ways to correct any significant degradation of television signal reception actually caused by the Project. Reasonable correction measures may include installation of television signal boosters serving the general area of the Wind Farm, installation of antenna or signal booster equipment on the Property, installation of and payment for cable, dish TV or similar devices serving the Property, or repair or replacement of television receivers.
(d) Construction Impact. Despite efforts to control dust and noise during construction of the Project, HAYS WIND recognizes that some neighbors of the Wind Farm due to their location next to roads or construction areas may be inconvenienced by construction noise and dust. Additionally, construction traffic in some areas may inconvenience Owner or require Owner to travel by unaccustomed routes to avoid construction traffic. As stated in HAYS WIND's application for a Conditional Use Permit with Ellis County, HAYS WIND will make all reasonable efforts to coordinate activities in public roadways with the Ellis County Public Works Department in order to minimize any disruption or inconvenience to the public.
(e) Should Owner experience effects, in addition to what is defined above, that Owner
reasonably believes to be in excess of industry standards for such effect, Owner shall promptly notify HAYS WIND of such fact and allow HAYS WIND 90 days thereafter in which to investigate the nature and extent of the problem and the best methods of correcting any problems found to exist in excess of industry standards. HAYS WIND, at its expense and with the agreement of Owner (which shall not be unreasonably withheld), will promptly undertake such measures as are commercially reasonable to mitigate the problematic effects.
(I) Owner hereby acknowledges that HAYS WIND intends to install subject to approval of
the Board of Ellis County Commissioners wind turbines located as close as, but no closer than, 2000 feet from an existing occupied residence on Owner's Property. Owner's approval of this Agreement further confirms Owner's consent thereto.
(g) Owner hereby agrees not to engage in any activity on or outside the Property that might
cause material interference with the construction, installation, maintenance or operation of the Project
3. Term. The easements and other provisions of this Agreement shall terminate upon permanent
cessation of commercial operation of the Project or [35] years from the date hereof (the "Term") whichever occurs first. Following the end of the Term, promptly upon request by Owner, HAYS WIND shall record such documents and take such other actions as may be appropriate or required to evidence such termination.

4. Consideration. The consideration to be paid by HAYS WIND to Owner, the sufficiency of which Owner hereby acknowledges, for the Easements and other covenants contained within this Agreement is as set forth on Exhibit B, attached hereto and incorporated herein by reference. Owner acknowledges that Owner is responsible for all income and other tax assessments that may result from the receipt of such consideration.
5. Insurance. During the Term of this Agreement, HAYS WIND shall maintain liability insurance in an amount not less than $5 million of combined single limit liability coverage. Owner shall be named as additional insured on such policy of insurance. An insurance certificate shall be provided to Owner upon request evidencing the insurance required of HAYS WIND under this Agreement.
6. Release. Owner, in consideration of the terms listed in Exhibit B, the sufficiency of which Owner hereby acknowledges, does individually and for each of Owner's successors and assigns, releases and forever discharges HAYS WIND LLC, and each of its past, present and future attorneys, principals, agents, representatives, insurers, partners, predecessors and successors in interest, assigns and all other persons, firms, corporations, and other entities (hereinafter referred to collectively as "HAYS WIND"), of and from any and all past, present or future claims, demands, obligations, actions or causes of action, at law or in equity, whether arising by statute, common law or otherwise, whether for compensatory or punitive damages, of whatsoever kind or nature (hereinafter referred to collectively as "Claims"), including without limitation, claims which are known and unknown, claims for known and unknown damages, claims for anticipated and unanticipated damages, and claims for anticipated and unanticipated consequences of damages on account of, arising out of or in any other way related to the Project.
7. Assignments. HAYS WIND may without the consent of or notice to Owner assign this Agreement (i) as collateral security, or otherwise encumber and grant security interests in this Agreement, to any lender or equity investor providing financing for the Project., or (ii) to any affiliate of HAYS WIND that may hereafter own or operate all or substantially all of the assets of the Project
8. Covenants Running with the Land. The parties hereby agree that the covenants and agreements contained in this Agreement touch and concern the real estate described in this Agreement and are expressly intended to, and shall, be covenants that run with the land, and accordingly shall be binding upon and inure to the benefit of the parties and the successor owners of the Property and the Project.
9. Further Acts and Assurances. Each Party hereby agrees that each shall execute such additional documents or instruments, and shall undertake such actions as are necessary and appropriate to effectuate the intent of this Agreement.
10. Confidentiality. Both Owner and HAYS WIND shall maintain in confidence all information pertaining to the financial terms of this Agreement, provided that each such party may share relevant information with its legal and financial advisors and HAYS WIND's affiliates and its or such affiliates' prospective or actual lenders, purchasers and/or investors.
11. Miscellany.
(a) This Agreement may not be amended, nor may any provision be waived, except in
writing and signed by both Owner and HAYS WIND.

(b) This Agreement may be executed and recorded in multiple counterparts, each of which shall be deemed an original, but all of which together shall constitute one and the same agreement.
(c) This Agreement is contingent upon the issuance to HAYS WIND of a Conditional Use Permit by the Board of Ellis County Commissioners authorizing the Project and subsequent construction of the project. In the event that such Conditional Use Permit is not granted to HAYS WIND on or before December 31, 2007, then this Agreement shall be null and void, and no financial compensation shall be due to Owner pursuant to this Agreement.
(d) The parties agree to sign and record in the public records a Memorandum of Neighbor Agreement. Said Memorandum shall not reveal any financial terms.
(e) This Agreement contains the entire agreement between the parties hereto, supersedes and nullifies all prior understandings, promises and undertakings, if any, made orally or in writing by or on behalf of the parties with respect to the subject matter hereof, and may not be modified, altered or terminated except in a writing signed and dated by the parties hereto.
(f) Owner represents and warrants that Owner has sufficient authority to bind the Property under the present Agreement and that this Agreement does not conflict with or otherwise violates any and all prior agreements and covenants to which the Owner or the Property are bound.
(g) Owner shall provide to HAYS WIND a copy of Owner's electricity bill for Exhibit C as described in Exhibit B.
[the next page is the signature page]

Ratzilla wrote:

LukeTHr wrote:

I think it will still draw enough out that it will nullify itself. kinda like a perpetual motion machine. To be able to work, there would have to be an ecxess of energy put in and only a lesser amount will be obtained. At least thats my belief.

With thinking like that, Edison would have never invented the pocket playmate.
You gotta think outside the box. A standard train takes alot of energy to make it run even 50 MPH and the drag of keeping it's massive weight rolling is largely why. But run on a magnetic cushion, it's very different. Don't think just hydro, or just air power. Think a combination of things like reducing friction with magnets, air cushions, etc.

ya know if the government would release the info on all that alien technology they are hidingwe would all be better off.......

Justoo wrote:

nitromaxx98 wrote:

So once again, wind seems to be a viable form of alternative energy with the exception of those who claim that flicker and noise will cause damage to humans.

Seems to me to be proven that fossil fuels cause much more harm.

If the flicker and noise are harmless, why do they mention them in the good neighbor agreement as something you can not (legally speaking) complain about except to Iberdrola. Why would Iberdrola offer concessions for a condition that does not exist?


Wind Farm Neighbor Agreement
This Wind Farm Neighbor Agreement ("Agreement") is entered into as of the date set forth below, between (i) Hays Wind LLC, a Delaware limited liability company authorized to do business in State of Kansas ("Hays Wind") and solely owned by Iberdrola Renewable Energies USA, and (ii) the property owner(s) signing this Agreement below ("Owner").
1. Background.
(a) HAYS WIND is developing a wind energy project located in Ellis County, Kansas, expected to consist of wind turbines (turbine) with a total nameplate capacity of approximately 200 MW and associated towers, substations, service roads, power collection and transmission facilities, and other fixtures, equipment and improvements (the "Project"), the description of which is as set forth in the application to Ellis County for a Conditional Use Permit.
(b) Owner owns certain real property located near the Project (the "Property"). The legal description of the Property is set forth on Exhibit A.
(c) HAYS WIND will build and operate the Project in accordance with prudent, generally-recognized wind industry practices, including with respect to minimizing the side-effects of the operation of the Project. HAYS WIND does not expect that these side effects will exceed industry standards regarding noise, shadow, flicker or television interference, but Owner understands and accepts that operation of the Project may have some impact on the Project's neighbors.
(d) HAYS WIND and Owner wish to enter into a mutually beneficial agreement regarding the Project and its potential impact on the Property.
2. Easements; Covenants.
(a) Noise Easement. Owner grants to HAYS 'WIND a "Noise Easement" for the right and privilege to generate and maintain audible wind turbine noise levels on and above the Property in excess of forty-five (45) dB(A) at any or all times of the night ("Noise Easement") and in excess of fifty (50) dB(A) at any or all times of the day. Day hours shall be defined as those from 7:00AM to 11:00PM and night hours shall be defined as those from 11:00PM to 7:00AM. If, twenty percent or more of the time on an annual basis, noise levels emanating from the turbines exceed forty-five (45) dB(A) during the night or fifty (50) dB(A) during the day thirty (30) feet from the outer wall of any presently existing occupied residence on Owner's Property, as measured by an independent professional as agreed to by both HAYS WIND and Owner and at the expense of HAYS WIND applying commonly accepted measurement instruments and standards, HAYS WIND shall take all commercially reasonable measures to reduce the turbine caused noise level 30 feet from the outer wall of the residence to forty-five (45) dB(A) during the night and fifty (50) dB(A) during the day so that such levels are exceeded less than twenty percent of the time on an annual basis. Reasonable measures to be taken by HAYS WIND may include installing landscaping, insulation or other sound barriers at agreed locations on or off Owner's Property; installing insulation or sound deadening material in the offending turbine(s); or, changing the operation of the turbine(s) to reduce noise output.
(b) Light and Shadow Easement. Owner grants HAYS WIND a "Light and Shadow Easement" for the right and privilege to cast light from FAA required lighting and shadows of the turbine towers and rotors and Met Towers, wherever located, onto Owner's Property. If in

Owner's reasonable judgment the light and shadows cast at any presently occupied residence on Owner's Property substantially interfere with the use and enjoyment of the residence, HAYS WIND shall promptly investigate the nature and extent of the problem and the best and commercially reasonable methods of correcting any problems found to exist. HAYS WIND, at its expense, with agreement of Owner, will then promptly undertake reasonable measures such as tree planting or installation of awnings, draperies or other window treatments necessary to mitigate the effects of the offending light or shadow.
(c) Television Reception. Owner grants to HAYS WIND the right to test television signal strength and reception at any residence on the Property before and at reasonable intervals after HAYS WIND builds the Project. In the event that existence or operation of the Project significantly interferes with or degrades television signal reception at any residence on the Property, HAYS WIND shall at its expense, with the full cooperation of Owner, promptly investigate and within a reasonable time find reasonable ways to correct any significant degradation of television signal reception actually caused by the Project. Reasonable correction measures may include installation of television signal boosters serving the general area of the Wind Farm, installation of antenna or signal booster equipment on the Property, installation of and payment for cable, dish TV or similar devices serving the Property, or repair or replacement of television receivers.
(d) Construction Impact. Despite efforts to control dust and noise during construction of the Project, HAYS WIND recognizes that some neighbors of the Wind Farm due to their location next to roads or construction areas may be inconvenienced by construction noise and dust. Additionally, construction traffic in some areas may inconvenience Owner or require Owner to travel by unaccustomed routes to avoid construction traffic. As stated in HAYS WIND's application for a Conditional Use Permit with Ellis County, HAYS WIND will make all reasonable efforts to coordinate activities in public roadways with the Ellis County Public Works Department in order to minimize any disruption or inconvenience to the public.
(e) Should Owner experience effects, in addition to what is defined above, that Owner
reasonably believes to be in excess of industry standards for such effect, Owner shall promptly notify HAYS WIND of such fact and allow HAYS WIND 90 days thereafter in which to investigate the nature and extent of the problem and the best methods of correcting any problems found to exist in excess of industry standards. HAYS WIND, at its expense and with the agreement of Owner (which shall not be unreasonably withheld), will promptly undertake such measures as are commercially reasonable to mitigate the problematic effects.
(I) Owner hereby acknowledges that HAYS WIND intends to install subject to approval of
the Board of Ellis County Commissioners wind turbines located as close as, but no closer than, 2000 feet from an existing occupied residence on Owner's Property. Owner's approval of this Agreement further confirms Owner's consent thereto.
(g) Owner hereby agrees not to engage in any activity on or outside the Property that might
cause material interference with the construction, installation, maintenance or operation of the Project
3. Term. The easements and other provisions of this Agreement shall terminate upon permanent
cessation of commercial operation of the Project or [35] years from the date hereof (the "Term") whichever occurs first. Following the end of the Term, promptly upon request by Owner, HAYS WIND shall record such documents and take such other actions as may be appropriate or required to evidence such termination.

4. Consideration. The consideration to be paid by HAYS WIND to Owner, the sufficiency of which Owner hereby acknowledges, for the Easements and other covenants contained within this Agreement is as set forth on Exhibit B, attached hereto and incorporated herein by reference. Owner acknowledges that Owner is responsible for all income and other tax assessments that may result from the receipt of such consideration.
5. Insurance. During the Term of this Agreement, HAYS WIND shall maintain liability insurance in an amount not less than $5 million of combined single limit liability coverage. Owner shall be named as additional insured on such policy of insurance. An insurance certificate shall be provided to Owner upon request evidencing the insurance required of HAYS WIND under this Agreement.
6. Release. Owner, in consideration of the terms listed in Exhibit B, the sufficiency of which Owner hereby acknowledges, does individually and for each of Owner's successors and assigns, releases and forever discharges HAYS WIND LLC, and each of its past, present and future attorneys, principals, agents, representatives, insurers, partners, predecessors and successors in interest, assigns and all other persons, firms, corporations, and other entities (hereinafter referred to collectively as "HAYS WIND"), of and from any and all past, present or future claims, demands, obligations, actions or causes of action, at law or in equity, whether arising by statute, common law or otherwise, whether for compensatory or punitive damages, of whatsoever kind or nature (hereinafter referred to collectively as "Claims"), including without limitation, claims which are known and unknown, claims for known and unknown damages, claims for anticipated and unanticipated damages, and claims for anticipated and unanticipated consequences of damages on account of, arising out of or in any other way related to the Project.
7. Assignments. HAYS WIND may without the consent of or notice to Owner assign this Agreement (i) as collateral security, or otherwise encumber and grant security interests in this Agreement, to any lender or equity investor providing financing for the Project., or (ii) to any affiliate of HAYS WIND that may hereafter own or operate all or substantially all of the assets of the Project
8. Covenants Running with the Land. The parties hereby agree that the covenants and agreements contained in this Agreement touch and concern the real estate described in this Agreement and are expressly intended to, and shall, be covenants that run with the land, and accordingly shall be binding upon and inure to the benefit of the parties and the successor owners of the Property and the Project.
9. Further Acts and Assurances. Each Party hereby agrees that each shall execute such additional documents or instruments, and shall undertake such actions as are necessary and appropriate to effectuate the intent of this Agreement.
10. Confidentiality. Both Owner and HAYS WIND shall maintain in confidence all information pertaining to the financial terms of this Agreement, provided that each such party may share relevant information with its legal and financial advisors and HAYS WIND's affiliates and its or such affiliates' prospective or actual lenders, purchasers and/or investors.
11. Miscellany.
(a) This Agreement may not be amended, nor may any provision be waived, except in
writing and signed by both Owner and HAYS WIND.

(b) This Agreement may be executed and recorded in multiple counterparts, each of which shall be deemed an original, but all of which together shall constitute one and the same agreement.
(c) This Agreement is contingent upon the issuance to HAYS WIND of a Conditional Use Permit by the Board of Ellis County Commissioners authorizing the Project and subsequent construction of the project. In the event that such Conditional Use Permit is not granted to HAYS WIND on or before December 31, 2007, then this Agreement shall be null and void, and no financial compensation shall be due to Owner pursuant to this Agreement.
(d) The parties agree to sign and record in the public records a Memorandum of Neighbor Agreement. Said Memorandum shall not reveal any financial terms.
(e) This Agreement contains the entire agreement between the parties hereto, supersedes and nullifies all prior understandings, promises and undertakings, if any, made orally or in writing by or on behalf of the parties with respect to the subject matter hereof, and may not be modified, altered or terminated except in a writing signed and dated by the parties hereto.
(f) Owner represents and warrants that Owner has sufficient authority to bind the Property under the present Agreement and that this Agreement does not conflict with or otherwise violates any and all prior agreements and covenants to which the Owner or the Property are bound.
(g) Owner shall provide to HAYS WIND a copy of Owner's electricity bill for Exhibit C as described in Exhibit B.
[the next page is the signature page]

in this day and age of lawsuits being filed at the drop of a hat, this kind of thing doesn't surprise me at all. you know that is just the normal way of the world nowdays. the days of a handshake and a smile ended decades , if not centuries ago

It is a common business practice to ask the neighbors of a potential new business to sign a waiver?

I can see this as a common business practice for those who have these on their property.

Did anyone get a noise waiver from UP?

Where's my lawyer?

JustAnotherTourist wrote:

Did anyone get a noise waiver from UP?

Where's my lawyer?

UP was here first. Anybody that didn't want the noise could go elsewhere, or was forced to go elsewhere by the military.

Dusty Moff wrote:

JustAnotherTourist wrote:

Did anyone get a noise waiver from UP?

Where's my lawyer?

UP was here first. Anybody that didn't want the noise could go elsewhere, or was forced to go elsewhere by the military.

By that argument, the longterm landowners should be able to develop their land. They were there before the housing developments

No, by that argument Iberdrola would stay out. The big difference is that UP owned all of the land that was for sale. The railroad went in and then they sold land to whoever was there. Nobody bought land and then was surprised by the railroad coming through. By my argument, if Iberdrola was already there, then those that bought land later would have no room to complain.

KJGordon,


Let us try a litmus test. Just for fun, let's use your litmus test.

Would you, Krista Jo Gordon, deny your grandparents their first amendment right to file a petition requesting relief from grievance they had?

Even if it were to streamline the process? That is what you said was the reason last night on the kfhs.net, wasn't it?

I know you look in on the subject from time to time. Looking forward, with great anticipation, to your answer.

Just for info since we are talking about wind turbines, farms, and trains.


50 decibels, equivalent to quiet radio, average home, light traffic at a distance of 100 feet, refrigerator, gentle breeze, average office, non-electric typewriter, ordinary spoken voice.

100 decibels, equivalent to a chain saw, pneumatic drill, printing plant, jackhammer, speeding express train, some car horns at five meters, farm tractor, riveting machine, some noisy subways [about 20 feet].

http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/620

Ratzilla wrote:

Just for info since we are talking about wind turbines, farms, and trains.


50 decibels, equivalent to quiet radio, average home, light traffic at a distance of 100 feet, refrigerator, gentle breeze, average office, non-electric typewriter, ordinary spoken voice.

100 decibels, equivalent to a chain saw, pneumatic drill, printing plant, jackhammer, speeding express train, some car horns at five meters, farm tractor, riveting machine, some noisy subways [about 20 feet].

http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/620

Even a softly sung lullaby on a CD is beautiful - for a little while. After a while it would get quite annoying and would be turned off. Unlike those who would be forced to live by these noisemakers. Unfortunately, there is no shut off switch.

my2cents wrote:

Ratzilla wrote:

Just for info since we are talking about wind turbines, farms, and trains.


50 decibels, equivalent to quiet radio, average home, light traffic at a distance of 100 feet, refrigerator, gentle breeze, average office, non-electric typewriter, ordinary spoken voice.

100 decibels, equivalent to a chain saw, pneumatic drill, printing plant, jackhammer, speeding express train, some car horns at five meters, farm tractor, riveting machine, some noisy subways [about 20 feet].

http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/620

Even a softly sung lullaby on a CD is beautiful - for a little while. After a while it would get quite annoying and would be turned off. Unlike those who would be forced to live by these noisemakers. Unfortunately, there is no shut off switch.

you make it sound as tho they would be running non-stop. you know they won't be. I live on a street that is high traffic including semis and assholes revving their goddam harleys as they rip down the street. after a while, you tune it out.

LukeTHr wrote:

my2cents wrote:

Ratzilla wrote:

Just for info since we are talking about wind turbines, farms, and trains.


50 decibels, equivalent to quiet radio, average home, light traffic at a distance of 100 feet, refrigerator, gentle breeze, average office, non-electric typewriter, ordinary spoken voice.

100 decibels, equivalent to a chain saw, pneumatic drill, printing plant, jackhammer, speeding express train, some car horns at five meters, farm tractor, riveting machine, some noisy subways [about 20 feet].

http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/620

Even a softly sung lullaby on a CD is beautiful - for a little while. After a while it would get quite annoying and would be turned off. Unlike those who would be forced to live by these noisemakers. Unfortunately, there is no shut off switch.

you make it sound as tho they would be running non-stop. you know they won't be. I live on a street that is high traffic including semis and assholes revving their goddam harleys as they rip down the street. after a while, you tune it out.

That was all there BEFORE you moved there I am sure. Listening to those talk about noise that already have the misfortune of living nearby these structures, they are driven out by the noise while trying to tune it out.

I don't want those rich assholes on their yuppie harleys coming by here adding to the noise of my neighborhood. wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of the anti-wind folks were part of my noise problem as they go by on their poker runs or whatever the hell it is the call em.

I get the impression that you think the world around you won't change just because you say so. you best wise up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you. and I don't give a rats ass if it was here BEFORE, I have a right to bitch about same as you do.

my2cents wrote:

LukeTHr wrote:

my2cents wrote:

Ratzilla wrote:

Just for info since we are talking about wind turbines, farms, and trains.


50 decibels, equivalent to quiet radio, average home, light traffic at a distance of 100 feet, refrigerator, gentle breeze, average office, non-electric typewriter, ordinary spoken voice.

100 decibels, equivalent to a chain saw, pneumatic drill, printing plant, jackhammer, speeding express train, some car horns at five meters, farm tractor, riveting machine, some noisy subways [about 20 feet].

http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/620

Even a softly sung lullaby on a CD is beautiful - for a little while. After a while it would get quite annoying and would be turned off. Unlike those who would be forced to live by these noisemakers. Unfortunately, there is no shut off switch.

you make it sound as tho they would be running non-stop. you know they won't be. I live on a street that is high traffic including semis and assholes revving their goddam harleys as they rip down the street. after a while, you tune it out.

That was all there BEFORE you moved there I am sure. Listening to those talk about noise that already have the misfortune of living nearby these structures, they are driven out by the noise while trying to tune it out.

Any noise generated by the turbines due to wind, would br drowned out by same wind.

Luke is that why I'm deaf?

You don't get it! The noise level, per say, yes is irritating, ongoing and you HAVE NO CONTROL over how long it lasts, unlike a car that passes by or turning off a radio, etc. We pulled off of I-70 at the Lincoln exit one evening - actually around 11p.m. - on our way back from Salina. We went about 2-3 miles north to where we were about where our home will be in proximity to the turbines. There was a slight breeze - probably around 15 mph - it truly sounded like a light plane flying overhead - never stopping. As we stood there, you then heard the other turbines at a little more distance - again - similar to what it will be like at our home - and it sounded like several planes - again - constantly - never stopping.
The part that everyone is completely ignoring is the LOW-FREQUENCY noise that is not heard but is the most damaging to the human body.

Think about it. You are blasting through mostly rock - 30 feet - to anchor, in concrete, a 400 foot wind turbine that has blades with a "wing span" of a jet - propelling in the wind - and you don't think that the vibrations would be of concern? The health problems that we are concerned with have to do with the LOW-FREQUENCY noise and the vibrations that we will have no idea what it is causing until it is TOO LATE!

I'm so "glad" that we have ordinary citizens that are making decisions against what has been researched and advised against by medical doctors who are dealing with this, including my husband's doctors out in Denver who has submitted a letter to each of the county commissioners that this would be of tremendous concern for my his health. Dr. Barbara Ottley has spoke about this and wrote a letter to the editor of HDN with her concern of this - and yet those of you that are not going to be effected and DO NOT have any credentials to make these kind of decisions are making these decisions based on what YOU think- instead of the information and professional opinions that have been given. By the way - Krista Gordon - SALESMAN - of Iberdrola of Spain - DOES NOT COUNT as a professional opinion - she is "probably" a little biased, and yet she is who you seem to ask the opinion of.

Unfortunately, these decisions are being made to "win" the battle. There is no concern over the citizens that will be effected - you know -the people that the zoning board and county commissioners are supposed to protect. It is all about "winning" and egos at this point. All common sense and judgements based on error on the side of caution is out the window. You all are right. If the zoning board and commissioners allow this to happen some of you are going to have "won." Congratulations!

kansas kid wrote:

Luke is that why I'm deaf?

You may have grounds for a lawsuit.

LukeTHr wrote:

I don't want those rich assholes on their yuppie harleys coming by here adding to the noise of my neighborhood. wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of the anti-wind folks were part of my noise problem as they go by on their poker runs or whatever the hell it is the call em.

I get the impression that you think the world around you won't change just because you say so. you best wise up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you. and I don't give a rats ass if it was here BEFORE, I have a right to bitch about same as you do.

I don't think so, I am gripping because they want to change the whole reason that most people move into the country, the peace and quite along with a view that goes no forever.

You, on the other hand, moved into the sights and sounds that you now have to live with.

I'm talking about harleys i guess that's why i don't have one!

mbsb wrote:

You don't get it! The noise level, per say, yes is irritating, ongoing and you HAVE NO CONTROL over how long it lasts, unlike a car that passes by or turning off a radio, etc. We pulled off of I-70 at the Lincoln exit one evening - actually around 11p.m. - on our way back from Salina. We went about 2-3 miles north to where we were about where our home will be in proximity to the turbines. There was a slight breeze - probably around 15 mph - it truly sounded like a light plane flying overhead - never stopping. As we stood there, you then heard the other turbines at a little more distance - again - similar to what it will be like at our home - and it sounded like several planes - again - constantly - never stopping.
The part that everyone is completely ignoring is the LOW-FREQUENCY noise that is not heard but is the most damaging to the human body.

Think about it. You are blasting through mostly rock - 30 feet - to anchor, in concrete, a 400 foot wind turbine that has blades with a "wing span" of a jet - propelling in the wind - and you don't think that the vibrations would be of concern? The health problems that we are concerned with have to do with the LOW-FREQUENCY noise and the vibrations that we will have no idea what it is causing until it is TOO LATE!

I'm so "glad" that we have ordinary citizens that are making decisions against what has been researched and advised against by medical doctors who are dealing with this, including my husband's doctors out in Denver who has submitted a letter to each of the county commissioners that this would be of tremendous concern for my his health. Dr. Barbara Ottley has spoke about this and wrote a letter to the editor of HDN with her concern of this - and yet those of you that are not going to be effected and DO NOT have any credentials to make these kind of decisions are making these decisions based on what YOU think- instead of the information and professional opinions that have been given. By the way - Krista Gordon - SALESMAN - of Iberdrola of Spain - DOES NOT COUNT as a professional opinion - she is "probably" a little biased, and yet she is who you seem to ask the opinion of.

Unfortunately, these decisions are being made to "win" the battle. There is no concern over the citizens that will be effected - you know -the people that the zoning board and county commissioners are supposed to protect. It is all about "winning" and egos at this point. All common sense and judgements based on error on the side of caution is out the window. You all are right. If the zoning board and commissioners allow this to happen some of you are going to have "won." Congratulations!

Dr Ottley, nice choice.

my2cents wrote:

LukeTHr wrote:

I don't want those rich assholes on their yuppie harleys coming by here adding to the noise of my neighborhood. wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of the anti-wind folks were part of my noise problem as they go by on their poker runs or whatever the hell it is the call em.

I get the impression that you think the world around you won't change just because you say so. you best wise up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you. and I don't give a rats ass if it was here BEFORE, I have a right to bitch about same as you do.

I don't think so, I am gripping because they want to change the whole reason that most people move into the country, the peace and quite along with a view that goes no forever.

You, on the other hand, moved into the sights and sounds that you now have to live with.

at least you finally admitted what this whole thing is about. the peace and quiet and VIEW of the country. The problem is you don't own the land whose view you enjoy yet you want to dictate to the people that do own it what they can and can't do with THEIR land. While you make your living in town and live on your country estate, your neighbors that earn their living from THEIR land only have THEIR land to earn from. Also keep in mind, you moved into THEIR neighborhood. Now you want to tell them how the neighborhood is going to run.

LukeTHr wrote:

at least you finally admitted what this whole thing is about. the peace and quiet and VIEW of the country. The problem is you don't own the land whose view you enjoy yet you want to dictate to the people that do own it what they can and can't do with THEIR land. While you make your living in town and live on your country estate, your neighbors that earn their living from THEIR land only have THEIR land to earn from. Also keep in mind, you moved into THEIR neighborhood. Now you want to tell them how the neighborhood is going to run.[/quote]

OH, PLEASE, there is SOOOO much wrong with this project, the sights and sounds are very low on the list of concerns.

my2cents wrote:

LukeTHr wrote:

I don't want those rich assholes on their yuppie harleys coming by here adding to the noise of my neighborhood. wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of the anti-wind folks were part of my noise problem as they go by on their poker runs or whatever the hell it is the call em.

I get the impression that you think the world around you won't change just because you say so. you best wise up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you. and I don't give a rats ass if it was here BEFORE, I have a right to bitch about same as you do.

I don't think so, I am gripping because they want to change the whole reason that most people move into the country, the peace and quite along with a view that goes no forever.

You, on the other hand, moved into the sights and sounds that you now have to live with.

So, once again, you consume energy, yet deny creation of it? For all I'm concerned, put a turbine in my backyard, or better yet where the HCVB is.

It boils down to view.

my2cents wrote:

LukeTHr wrote:

at least you finally admitted what this whole thing is about. the peace and quiet and VIEW of the country. The problem is you don't own the land whose view you enjoy yet you want to dictate to the people that do own it what they can and can't do with THEIR land. While you make your living in town and live on your country estate, your neighbors that earn their living from THEIR land only have THEIR land to earn from. Also keep in mind, you moved into THEIR neighborhood. Now you want to tell them how the neighborhood is going to run.

OH, PLEASE, there is SOOOO much wrong with this project, the sights and sounds are very low on the list of concerns.[/quote]

yeah..........whatever

nitromaxx98 wrote:

It boils down to view.

How very smalled minded! Reading all the posts on this thread, you want to narrow it down to the view? WOW! There are much greater concerns coming from those who are fight this including health. Yep, small minded indeed.

my2cents wrote:

nitromaxx98 wrote:

It boils down to view.

How very smalled minded! Reading all the posts on this thread, you want to narrow it down to the view? WOW! There are much greater concerns coming from those who are fight this including health. Yep, small minded indeed.

How?

Both flicker and sound are bunk. As soon as Golf Course Road is paved, people will flock there. Look on the bright side, the new house accross the road will block the view of the turbine.

thats a typical response when someone with a different view won't buy into your argument....call them small minded. perhaps you are the one that is small minded....

LukeTHr wrote:

thats a typical response when someone with a different view won't buy into your argument....call them small minded. perhaps you are the one that is small minded....

My brain is normal sized.

Thank You.

nitromaxx98 wrote:

my2cents wrote:

nitromaxx98 wrote:

It boils down to view.

How very smalled minded! Reading all the posts on this thread, you want to narrow it down to the view? WOW! There are much greater concerns coming from those who are fight this including health. Yep, small minded indeed.

How?

Both flicker and sound are bunk. As soon as Golf Course Road is paved, people will flock there. Look on the bright side, the new house accross the road will block the view of the turbine.

Who said flicker and sound are bunk? YOU? OR maybe your sidekicks on this thread who like to make fun of those who are expressing their REAL concerns of living on near a wind complex? The EXPERTS who say that scientifically flicker and sound of the turbines SHOULD not bother anyone? I would like data on how many of these EXPERTS live in or by a wind complex.

I prefer to hear from those who are NOT being "paid off" by big corporations nor by the landowners who have signed easements. I have heard many, many, many, stories from those who live amongst these monstrosities who have been forced to leave their homes because they simply couldn't take it any longer. Oh, wait they shouldn't have to leave `cuz the scientists say it not really bothering them, it's all in their heads.

LukeTHr wrote:

thats a typical response when someone with a different view won't buy into your argument....call them small minded. perhaps you are the one that is small minded....

What argument?????? You are trying to tell those that have to live in the project area that their concerns are not legit because you say so? You poke fun at them for their worries? You and a few others on this thread remind me of the playground bullies that liked to pick on those who were not in your group of, yes, small minded bullies.

LukeTHr wrote:

my2cents wrote:

LukeTHr wrote:

I don't want those rich assholes on their yuppie harleys coming by here adding to the noise of my neighborhood. wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of the anti-wind folks were part of my noise problem as they go by on their poker runs or whatever the hell it is the call em.

I get the impression that you think the world around you won't change just because you say so. you best wise up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you. and I don't give a rats ass if it was here BEFORE, I have a right to bitch about same as you do.

I don't think so, I am gripping because they want to change the whole reason that most people move into the country, the peace and quite along with a view that goes no forever.

You, on the other hand, moved into the sights and sounds that you now have to live with.

at least you finally admitted what this whole thing is about. the peace and quiet and VIEW of the country. The problem is you don't own the land whose view you enjoy yet you want to dictate to the people that do own it what they can and can't do with THEIR land. While you make your living in town and live on your country estate, your neighbors that earn their living from THEIR land only have THEIR land to earn from. Also keep in mind, you moved into THEIR neighborhood. Now you want to tell them how the neighborhood is going to run.

I'll stand by my previous posts. And doing so does not make me a small minded bully, it makes me someone with a view different than yours. So why don't you grow up and act like an adult having a civil debate instead of a kid throwing a tantrum when someone doesn't agree with you.

Dusty Moff wrote:

JustAnotherTourist wrote:

Did anyone get a noise waiver from UP?

Where's my lawyer?

UP was here first. Anybody that didn't want the noise could go elsewhere, or was forced to go elsewhere by the military.

Funny you should mention that...the landowners in the proposed project area were there first too.

Obviously..there's precedent!

Call the military..oust the interlopers!

JustAnotherTourist wrote:

Dusty Moff wrote:

JustAnotherTourist wrote:

Did anyone get a noise waiver from UP?

Where's my lawyer?

UP was here first. Anybody that didn't want the noise could go elsewhere, or was forced to go elsewhere by the military.

Funny you should mention that...the landowners in the proposed project area were there first too.

Obviously..there's precedent!

Call the military..oust the interlopers!

As well as the landowners that are protesting the project.

my2cents wrote:

What argument?????? You are trying to tell those that have to live in the project area that their concerns are not legit because you say so? You poke fun at them for their worries? You and a few others on this thread remind me of the playground bullies that liked to pick on those who were not in your group of, yes, small minded bullies.

I provide facts. Fact is most who sit in their homes and complain about low level turbine noise outside are likely to be exposing themselves to the same thing inside. Refrigerators, fans, air conditioners, stereos, humidifiers, fish tank pumps, etc. All are sources of this noise. Much of the world lives and works among more noise than those turbines. I spend 8 hours a day in vibration and noise that'd make those turbines look like nothing and I'm not dead yet.

Ratzilla wrote:

my2cents wrote:

What argument?????? You are trying to tell those that have to live in the project area that their concerns are not legit because you say so? You poke fun at them for their worries? You and a few others on this thread remind me of the playground bullies that liked to pick on those who were not in your group of, yes, small minded bullies.

I provide facts. Fact is most who sit in their homes and complain about low level turbine noise outside are likely to be exposing themselves to the same thing inside. Refrigerators, fans, air conditioners, stereos, humidifiers, fish tank pumps, etc. All are sources of this noise. Much of the world lives and works among more noise than those turbines. I spend 8 hours a day in vibration and noise that'd make those turbines look like nothing and I'm not dead yet.

Please provide these FACTS you speak of, I will be watching for them.

Do you have to sleep around this noise that you are with 8 hours a day? Do you work around them 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? This seems to be a job that you are talking about which is a place YOU put YOURSELF in. Those who are opposed to the windfarm are having this noise forced on them 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year along with a long list of issues they have concerns about.

I suggest if YOU like the type of job which is creating all this noise for YOU then great stay there since YOU applied for the job and YOU accepted the job. If YOU don't like the noise leave and find new employment. I bet it is nice to get away from all of it and just sit in peace and quite. Those who have had windfarm complexes FORCED on them do not have that luxury. It's not like you are being forced to sell your home pack your bags, perhaps find a new school for your kids as well as find a new place to live.

The noise that you are referring to including fans, humidifiers, stereos, air conditioners..., these can all be SHUT OFF at will, these items have switches that can be used by the homeowners, unlike the turbines. As far as my fridge noise level, it does not make any noise even when it cycles; it is a new model which the motor is next to silent.

As I stated in my earlier posts, those whom I chose to believe are those who live within a windfarm and can tell us first hand what it is like to live there. All else is hogwash in my books, including all the scientific studies. I prefer to hear if from the horse's mouth if you will.

I have presented facts 2 cents. And you've presented alot of whining. But I'm glad you have because at least for awhile everyone has forgotten that we are all going to die from mold, formaldehyde, pesticide laden house dust, second hand smoke, radioctivity from TV's and microwaves, microwave towers, high voltage power lines, cell phones, hantavirus, legionaires disease, mutant nanobots, the millenium, infected paper cuts, Monosodium glutamate, x-rays, gamma rays, lyme disease, roaches, flies, and mites, lead pipes, copper pipes, artificial sweeteners, mercury tuna, lead paint, flouridated water, killer bees, fire ants, anthrax, bubonic plague, poison frogs, quasar rays, black holes, asteroids, and possibly the most horrifying thing of all, cancer causing scented toilet paper.

Ratzilla wrote:

cancer causing scented toilet paper.

I know people that would be at great risk of Meningioma or Glioma.

Yeah justoo, alot of politicians for starters. I think you get the point here. While any potential problems should be addressed, we need to avoid hysteria.

Damn Ratzilla! A wind farm sounds healthy after being exposed to all that shit for a lifetime.....Good Point

Once again, it's all about the view.

well 2 cents, if the view and peace and quiet are so important to YOU, then YOU need to go take out a loan and buy the land that YOU like the view of so much. and if YOU don't like the changes in the neighborhood, then feel free to vote with YOUR feet and move. but as far as I see it, YOU have no right to tell YOUR neighbors what THEY can and can't lease THEIR ground out for

I'm thinking along the same lines as Luke. Not all, but some who bought land for homes bought a small amount of acreage and want to enjoy the view and quiet curtesy of those who own the rest around them. My personal thought is that if you want to guarantee your solitude and that nothing around you will change for the worse, you better own that scenery and not just a couple acres in the middle of it.

This has been voted on with the protest petition (which is supposedly what it was designed for) by the percentage of people around this thing THAT DO NOT WANT IT. That is how it is supposed to work right? If enough people around the project area protest against it - which is what happened - we should be finished with this project for this location. However, just change up the process a little bit - to get rid of the protest area. Boy this zoning thing is a real winner isn't it?
Let's talk about change that comes into an area. The landowners wanting to lease their land to Iberdrola - wanted zoning so that wind complex could come in. Zoning came in with it's procedures and rules. The protest petition was one of those procedures, we followed those procedures and won. You say that nobody has the right to tell what someone can do with his land - guess what - that's what zoning is - and that's what you wanted that's what we have. Due to having zoning - landowners can be told what to do with their land, particularly when changing from an agriculture zone to an industrial one. We now can be told where we can and can't put up a building, the specs on a new home, etc. Now - landowners wanting turbines - get used to the change - you wanted zoning - the petition which is part of the zoning procedures won - you lost. Get over it - stop WHINING!

I'm not whining at all. You are. I didn't ask for the zoning. Besides, what is the percentage for and against now that the company has offered deals to all landowners and some accepted?

We didn't ask for zoning either. In fact before all of this came about we would have been against zoning. But now that it is in place - the procedure was followed - and the outcomes were not what the landowners and Iberdrola wanted - so now they don't like the process anymore so they want to change the rules. As for the whining - I was just referencing what you said we were all doing in your post earlier this evening. Doesn't feel so good does it - that a person's concerns, worries, and fight for what their property is to them - is called "whining."