A Haitian-American History Primer

Haiti and America's Historic Debt

By Robert Parry
January 13, 2010

Announcing emergency help for Haiti after a devastating 7.0-magnitude earthquake, President Barack Obama noted America’s historic ties to the impoverished Caribbean nation, but few Americans understand how important Haiti’s contribution to U.S. history was.

In modern times, when Haiti does intrude on U.S. consciousness, it’s usually because of some natural disaster or a violent political upheaval, and the U.S. response is often paternalistic, if not tinged with a racist disdain for the country’s predominantly black population and its seemingly endless failure to escape cycles of crushing poverty.

However, more than two centuries ago, Haiti represented one of the most important neighbors of the new American Republic and played a central role in enabling the United States to expand westward. If not for Haiti, the course of U.S. history could have been very different, with the United States possibly never expanding much beyond the Appalachian Mountains.

In the 1700s, then-called St. Domingue and covering the western third of the island of Hispaniola, Haiti was a French colony that rivaled the American colonies as the most valuable European possession in the Western Hemisphere. Relying on a ruthless exploitation of African slaves, French plantations there produced nearly one-half the world’s coffee and sugar.

Many of the great cities of France owe their grandeur to the wealth that was extracted from Haiti and its slaves. But the human price was unspeakably high. The French had devised a fiendishly cruel slave system that imported enslaved Africans for work in the fields with accounting procedures for their amortization. They were literally worked to death.

The American colonists may have rebelled against Great Britain over issues such as representation in Parliament and arbitrary actions by King George III. But black Haitians confronted a brutal system of slavery. An infamous French method of executing a troublesome slave was to insert a gunpowder charge into his rectum and then detonate the explosive.

So, as the American colonies fought for their freedom in the 1770s and as that inspiration against tyranny spread to France in the 1780s, the repercussions would eventually reach Haiti, where the Jacobins’ cry of “liberty, equality and fraternity” resonated with special force. Slaves demanded that the concepts of freedom be applied universally.

When the brutal French plantation system continued, violent slave uprisings followed. Hundreds of white plantation owners were slain as the rebels overran the colony. A self-educated slave named Toussaint L’Ouverture emerged as the revolution’s leader, demonstrating skills on the battlefield and in the complexities of politics.

Despite the atrocities committed by both sides of the conflict, the rebels – known as the “Black Jacobins” – gained the sympathy of the American Federalist Party and particularly Alexander Hamilton, a native of the Caribbean himself. Hamilton, the first U.S. Treasury Secretary, helped L’Ouverture draft a constitution for the new nation.

Conspiracies

But events in Paris and Washington soon conspired to undo the promise of Haiti’s new freedom.

Despite Hamilton’s sympathies, some Founders, including Thomas Jefferson who owned 180 slaves and owed his political strength to agrarian interests, looked nervously at the slave rebellion in St. Domingue. “If something is not done, and soon done,” Jefferson wrote in 1797, “we shall be the murderers of our own children.”

Meanwhile, across the Atlantic, the chaos and excesses of the French Revolution led to the ascendance of Napoleon Bonaparte, a brilliant and vain military commander possessed of legendary ambition. As he expanded his power across Europe, Napoleon also dreamed of rebuilding a French empire in the Americas.

In 1801, Jefferson became the third President of the United States – and his interests at least temporarily aligned with those of Napoleon. The French dictator was determined to restore French control of St. Domingue and Jefferson was eager to see the slave rebellion crushed.

Through secret diplomatic channels, Napoleon asked Jefferson if the United States would help a French army traveling by sea to St. Domingue. Jefferson replied that “nothing will be easier than to furnish your army and fleet with everything and reduce Toussaint [L’Ouverture] to starvation.”

But Napoleon had a secret second phase of his plan that he didn’t share with Jefferson. Once the French army had subdued L’Ouverture and his rebel force, Napoleon intended to advance to the North American mainland, basing a new French empire in New Orleans and settling the vast territory west of the Mississippi River.

In May 1801, Jefferson picked up the first inklings of Napoleon’s other agenda. Alarmed at the prospect of a major European power controlling New Orleans and thus the mouth of the strategic Mississippi River, Jefferson backpedaled on his commitment to Napoleon, retreating to a posture of neutrality.

Still – terrified at the prospect of a successful republic organized by freed African slaves – Jefferson took no action to block Napoleon’s thrust into the New World.

In 1802, a French expeditionary force achieved initial success against the slave army, driving L’Ouverture’s forces back into the mountains. But, as they retreated, the ex-slaves torched the cities and the plantations, destroying the colony’s once-thriving economic infrastructure.

L’Ouverture, hoping to bring the war to an end, accepted Napoleon’s promise of a negotiated settlement that would ban future slavery in the country. As part of the agreement, L’Ouverture turned himself in.

Napoleon, however, broke his word. Jealous of L’Ouverture, who was regarded by some admirers as a general with skills rivaling Napoleon’s, the French dictator had L’Ouverture shipped in chains back to Europe where he was mistreated and died in prison.

Foiled Plans

Infuriated by the betrayal, L’Ouverture’s young generals resumed the war with a vengeance. In the months that followed, the French army – already decimated by disease – was overwhelmed by a fierce enemy fighting in familiar terrain and determined not to be put back into slavery.

Napoleon sent a second French army, but it too was destroyed. Though the famed general had conquered much of Europe, he lost 24,000 men, including some of his best troops, in St. Domingue before abandoning his campaign.

The death toll among the ex-slaves was much higher, but they had prevailed, albeit over a devastated land.

By 1803, a frustrated Napoleon – denied his foothold in the New World – agreed to sell New Orleans and the Louisiana territories to Jefferson. Ironically, the Louisiana Purchase, which opened the heart of the present United States to American settlement, had been made possible despite Jefferson’s misguided collaboration with Napoleon.

“By their long and bitter struggle for independence, St. Domingue’s blacks were instrumental in allowing the United States to more than double the size of its territory,” wrote Stanford University professor John Chester Miller in his book, The Wolf by the Ears: Thomas Jefferson and Slavery.

But, Miller observed, “the decisive contribution made by the black freedom fighters … went almost unnoticed by the Jeffersonian administration.”

The loss of L’Ouverture’s leadership dealt a severe blow to Haiti’s prospects, according to Jefferson scholar Paul Finkelman of Virginia Polytechnic Institute.

“Had Toussaint lived, it’s very likely that he would have remained in power long enough to put the nation on a firm footing, to establish an order of succession,” Finkelman told me in an interview. “The entire subsequent history of Haiti might have been different.”

Instead, the island nation continued a downward spiral.

In 1804, Jean-Jacques Dessalines, the radical slave leader who had replaced L’Ouverture, formally declared the nation’s independence and returned it to its original Indian name, Haiti. A year later, apparently fearing a return of the French and a counterrevolution, Dessalines ordered the massacre of the remaining French whites on the island.

Though the Haitian resistance had blunted Napoleon’s planned penetration of the North American mainland, Jefferson reacted to the shocking bloodshed in Haiti by imposing a stiff economic embargo on the island nation. In 1806, Dessalines himself was brutally assassinated, touching off a cycle of political violence that would haunt Haiti for the next two centuries.

Jefferson’s Blemish

For some scholars, Jefferson’s vengeful policy toward Haiti – like his personal ownership of slaves – represented an ugly blemish on his legacy as a historic advocate of freedom. Even in his final years, Jefferson remained obsessed with Haiti and its link to the issue of American slavery.

In the 1820s, the former President proposed a scheme for taking away the children born to black slaves in the United States and shipping them to Haiti. In that way, Jefferson posited that both slavery and America’s black population could be phased out. Eventually, in Jefferson’s view, Haiti would be all black and the United States white.

Jefferson’s deportation scheme never was taken very seriously and American slavery would continue for another four decades until it was ended by the Civil War. The official hostility of the United States toward Haiti extended almost as long, ending in 1862 when President Abraham Lincoln finally granted diplomatic recognition.

By then, however, Haiti’s destructive patterns of political violence and economic chaos had been long established – continuing up to the present time. Personal and political connections between Haiti’s light-skinned elite and power centers of Washington also have lasted through today.

Recent Republican administrations have been particularly hostile to the popular will of the impoverished Haitian masses. When leftist priest Jean-Bertrand Aristide was twice elected by overwhelming margins, he was ousted both times – first during the presidency of George H.W. Bush and again under President George W. Bush.

Washington’s conventional wisdom on Haiti holds that the country is a hopeless basket case that would best be governed by business-oriented technocrats who would take their marching orders from the United States.

However, the Haitian people have a different perspective. Unlike most Americans who have no idea about their historic debt to Haiti, many Haitians know this history quite well. The bitter memories of Jefferson and Napoleon still feed the distrust that Haitians of all classes feel toward the outside world.

“In Haiti, we became the first black independent country,” Aristide once told me in an interview. “We understand, as we still understand, it wasn’t easy for them – American, French and others – to accept our independence.”

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/011310.html

Shoved the gun powder up their butt and lit it? Them Frenchies are a kinky lot.

Cousin Eddie wrote:

Shoved the gun powder up their butt and lit it? Them Frenchies are a kinky lot.

"whitey" not much better than the purported "savages" they subjugated

Cousin Eddie wrote:

Shoved the gun powder up their butt and lit it? Them Frenchies are a kinky lot.

Maybe that was the inspiration for the Christmas Crotchbomber.

bobby's article left out one important thing. The Haitians made a deal with the devil to gain their freedom from the French, and they've been paying for it ever since. Pat Robertson said so.



Did Robertson steal his writers from Wes Craven? What a maroon!

Pat Robertson is the anti-christ

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slickjay12 wrote:

Pat Robertson is the anti-christ

I prefer to think of him as a modern day snake oil salesman.

Haiti is similar to the rest of Latin America in that it is a predominantly Roman Catholic country with 80%-85% professing Catholicism and approximately 20% professing Protestantism. A small but growing population of Muslims exists in the country, principally in the capital of Port-au-Prince.

Vodou, encompassing several different traditions, may contain a mix of Central and Western African, European and Native American (Taino) religions is also widely practiced despite the negative stigma that it carries both in and out of the country. It is more widespread in the rural parts of the country. The exact number of Vodou practitioners is unknown; however, it is believed that a significant amount of the population practice it, often alongside their Christian faith. Some Protestants also have been known to participate in some rituals, although indirectly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Haiti

The pope is the devil!!!

The Other One wrote:

slickjay12 wrote:

Pat Robertson is the anti-christ

I prefer to think of him as a modern day snake oil salesman.

sans oil

robert wrote:

The Other One wrote:

slickjay12 wrote:

Pat Robertson is the anti-christ

I prefer to think of him as a modern day snake oil salesman.

sans oil

Oh, he's plenty slick.

he does what he does out of his love for Israel

robert wrote:

he does what he does out of his love for Israel

No, bobby, he does what he does out of his love for money. Your anti-Semitism is becoming boring.

How about another perspective.

Why Evangelical Christians Support Israel

Christian Broadcasting Network ^ | 17 December 2003 | Pat Robertson

Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:09:53 PM by Salem

By Dr. M. G. "Pat" Robertson
Address to the Herzliya Conference
Lauder School of Government, Diplomacy, and Strategy
December 17, 2003



CBN.com – One day in the late 19th Century, Queen Victoria of England reportedly asked her Prime Minister, Benjamin Disraeli, this question...

"Mr. Prime Minister, what evidence can you give me of the existence of God?"

Disraeli thought for a moment and then replied, "The Jew, your majesty."

Think of it, according to Disraeli the primary evidence that God exists is the existence of the Jewish people... A people who in 586 BC were deported to Babylon, yet returned after seventy years to rebuild a nation. Who were again brutally massacred and dispersed by the Romans in 70 AD, yet after countless centuries of Diaspora, expulsions, pogroms, ghettos, and attempts at genocidal extermination, have clung to their faith, their customs-and now after some 2500 years of wandering have returned to the land promised by God to their ancestors. A new nation began in that land in 1948 named after their ancestor Jacob, whose divinely appointed name Israel means "Prince with God." And to fulfill another ancient prophecy, God moved on the heart of Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, whose son Ehud told me that, while his father was living in Eastern Europe, he heard a voice and saw a light directing him to bring forth for the Jewish people a pure language-Hebrew-the language of the Torah and of the ancient prophets.

Yes, the survival of the Jewish people is a miracle of God. The return of the Jewish people to the land promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is a miracle of God. The remarkable victories of Jewish armies against overwhelming odds in successive battles in 1948, and 1967, and 1973 are clearly miracles of God. The technological marvels of Israeli industry, the military prowess, the bounty of Israeli agriculture, the fruits and flowers and abundance of the land are a testimony to God's watchful care over this new nation and the genius of this people.

Yet what has happened was clearly foretold by the ancient prophet Ezekiel, who, writing at the time of the Babylonian captivity, declared this message for the Jewish people concerning latter days.

"For I will take you out of the nation; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back to your own land... I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you... to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people and I will be your God. I will save you from all your uncleanness.

"I will call for the grain and make it plentiful... I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine...

"This is what the Sovereign Jehovah says, 'On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt. The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. They will say, "This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited."'

"Then the nations around you that remain will know that I, Jehovah, have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I, Jehovah, have spoken, and I will do it." Ezekiel 36:24 ff.

Ladies and Gentleman, evangelical Christians support Israel because we believe that the words of Moses and the ancient prophets of Israel were inspired by God. We believe that the emergence of a Jewish state in the land promised by God to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was ordained by God.

We believe that God has a plan for this nation which He intends to be a blessing to all the nations of the earth.

Of course, we, like all right-thinking people, support Israel because Israel is an island of democracy, an island of individual freedom, an island of the rule of law, and an island of modernity in the midst of a sea of dictatorial regimes, the suppression of individual liberty, and a fanatical religion intent on returning to the feudalism of 8th Century Arabia.

These facts about modern day Israel are all true. But mere political rhetoric does not account for the profound devotion to Israel that exists in the hearts of tens of millions of evangelical Christians.

You must realize that the God who spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai is our God. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are our spiritual Patriarchs. Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel are our prophets. King David, a man after God's own heart, is our hero. The Holy City of Jerusalem is our spiritual capital. And the continuation of Jewish sovereignty over the Holy Land is a further bulwark to us that the God of the Bible exists and that His Word is true.

And we should clearly take note that evangelical Christians serve a Jew that we believe was the divine Messiah of Israel, spoken of by the ancient prophets, to whom He entrusted the worldwide dissemination of His message to twelve Jewish apostles.

It should be noted that today Christianity, with well over two billion adherents, is by far the fastest growing religion in the world. Within twenty years, that number will swell to three billion. Of these, at least six hundred million are Bible-believing evangelicals and charismatics who are ardent supporters of the nation of Israel. In twenty years, that number will reach one billion. Israel has millions of Christian friends in China, in India, in Indonesia, throughout Africa and South America, as well as North America.

We are with you in your struggle. We are with you as a wave of anti-Semitism is engulfing the earth. We are with you despite the pressure of the "Quartette" and the incredibly hostile resolutions of the United Nations. We are with you despite the threats and ravings of Wahabbi Jihadists, Hezbollah thugs, and Hamas assassins.

We are with you despite oil embargos, loss of allies, and terrorist attacks on our cities.

We evangelical Christians merely say to our Israeli friends, "Let us serve our God together by opposing the virulent poison of anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism that is rapidly engulfing the world."

Having affirmed our support, I would humbly make two requests of our Israeli friends:

First, please don't commit national suicide. It is very hard for your friends to support you, if you make a conscious decision to destroy yourselves.

I hardly find it necessary to remind this audience of the stated objectives of Yasser Arafat, the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad. Their goal is not peace, but the final destruction of the State of Israel. At no time do they, or their allies in the Muslim world, acknowledge the sovereignty of Israel over even one square inch of territory in the Middle East. If a Palestinian State is created in the heart of Israel with sovereign power to deploy troops, import modern weapons-even weapons of mass destruction-and operate with full secrecy and diplomatic immunity, the ability of the State of Israel to defend itself will be fatally compromised.

The slogan "land for peace" is a cruel chimera. The Sinai was given up. Did that bring lasting peace?-No. Southern Lebanon was given up. Did that bring lasting peace?-No. Instead Hezbollah rode tanks to the border of Israel shouting, "On to Jerusalem!" Now, as many as 10,000 rockets aimed at Metulla, Qiryat Shemona, and all of Northern Israel have been put in place throughout Southern Lebanon.

Arafat was brought up at the knees of the man who yearned to finish the work of Adolf Hitler. How can any realist truly believe that this killer and his associates can become trusted partners for peace?

I am aware of the deep feelings of many Israelis who yearn for peace. Who long to be free from the terror of the suicide bombers of the intifada. I would draw their attention to the fact that during the Cold War, the American people yearned to be free from the constant threat of a nuclear holocaust. Then, at Reykjavik, Iceland on the occasion of a summit between President Ronald Reagan of the United Sates and Premier Mikhail Gorbachev of the Soviet Union, what seemed like an incredible opportunity for peace was presented to President Reagan by Mr. Gorbachev. An offer was made for hitherto undreamed of reductions in nuclear weapons. Gorbachev's offer included everything the U.S. arms negotiations had wanted, except one thing. The condition for the Russian offer was to be the agreement by the United States to abandon the so-called "star wars" Strategic Defense Initiative.

Mr. Reagan carefully considered the offer-then reluctantly said no. Without the Strategic Defense Initiative, there would be no deal. Gorbachev was stunned. Then both leaders, with sadness in their hearts, adjourned the meeting and departed Reykjavik.

Once again, the world was hovering on the brink of nuclear annihilation. The American liberal press was apoplectic at Reagan's decision. But he held firm.

Now we all know that he was right. The Russians could not compete with the United States in a nuclear arms race and Gorbachev knew it. The bluster was over-the threats were over-Reagan had won by standing firm. Soon freedom broke out in Poland-in Hungary-in East Germany. The Berlin Wall came down. The barbed wire fences came down. And Soviet Communism came down.

The world is safe from super power nuclear terror. This terror is no more because one strong leader stood against public opinion-against the advice of many of his own counselors and said no! May the leaders of Israel in 2004 have the courage to look the nations of the world in the eye, and when your national interests demand it-say no!

Second, the world's Christians ask that you do not give away the treasured symbols of your spiritual patrimony.

I read recently in the Wall Street Journal an article written by an American Jewish commentator who remarked that the Temple Mount and what is termed the "Wailing Wall" are "sacred stones and sites," but hardly worth bloodshed.

Just think-the place where the Patriarch Abraham took Isaac to offer him to God. The place bought by King David from Araunah where the Angel of the Lord stood with drawn sword. The place of Solomon's temple. The place of the Holy of Holies. The place where Jesus Christ walked and taught. The very spiritual center of the Jewish worship of the one true God-nothing but a pile of sacred stones-unworthy of sacrifice? What an incredible assertion!

Ladies and gentlemen, make no mistake-the entire world is being convulsed by a religious struggle. The fight is not about money or territory; it is not about poverty versus wealth; it is not about ancient customs versus modernity. No-the struggle is whether Hubal, the Moon God of Mecca, known as Allah, is supreme, or whether the Judeo-Christian Jehovah God of the Bible is Supreme.

If God's chosen people turn over to Allah control of their most sacred sites-if they surrender to Muslim vandals the tombs of Rachel, of Joseph, of the Patriarchs, of the ancient prophets-if they believe their claim to the Holy Land comes only from Lord Balfour of England and the ever fickle United Nations rather than the promises of Almighty God-then in that event, Islam will have won the battle. Throughout the Muslim world the message will go forth-"Allah is greater than Jehovah. The promises of Jehovah to the Jews are meaningless.

"We can now, in the name of Allah, move to crush the Jews and drive them out of the land that belongs to Allah."

In short, those political initiatives that some have asserted will guarantee peace, will in truth guarantee unending struggle and ultimate failure. Those political leaders who only understand the secular dimension of Israel's existence and who cavalierly dismiss the spiritual dimension will find that they receive the mess of pottage of Esau rather than the inheritance of Jacob.
~~~~~~~~~~

On Christmas Day in 1974, I had the privilege of interviewing Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin for my television program, The 700 Club. Rabin lamented the fact that after Israeli military victories, the nation had been stopped from achieving a peace treaty.

That was thirty years ago. Israel seemed as isolated and alone then as it does today. As I concluded my interview, I asked Prime Minister Rabin a final question. "What would you want the United States to do now for Israel?"

He replied without hesitation. "Be strong! Be strong!"

That evening I joined for dinner a group of several hundred people who had accompanied me from the United States. We were meeting in the large dining room of the InterContinental Hotel on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, whose floor-to-ceiling windows gave a stunning view of the illuminated Temple Mount. As I related to the group the substance of my meeting, I began to recall the feeling of sadness which had come from the Prime Minister-the sense of the isolation of his nation. That evening, I made a solemn vow to God that, despite whatever might happen in the future, I and the organizations I headed would stand in support of Israel and the Jewish people. Ladies and gentlemen, I am proud to say that I have kept that vow each year since 1974.

In closing, I would deliver to Israel in 2004 the message Yitzhak Rabin delivered to the United States on Christmas Day in 1974. For you are the living witnesses that the promises of the Sovereign Lord are true. "Be strong! Be strong!"

He will be with you and so will your Evangelical friends.
Thank you, and God bless you!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1044665/posts

so antisemitism is pointing out the truth?

The Other One wrote:

No, bobby, he does what he does out of his love for money.

so do you...

robert wrote:

The Other One wrote:

No, bobby, he does what he does out of his love for money.

so do you...

As do you. And apparently for your hate for Jews.

However, I do what I do honestly. I don't go on television and appeal for money to help Africa, then use the money to buy equipment for my organization's diamond mines in Africa. And that's just one example of Robertson's dishonesty. Not to mention his statements that things like 9-11 and Katrina were God's vengence against America. He's really no better than Phelps.

i dislike zionists. not jews. there is a difference.

robert wrote:

i dislike zionists. not jews. there is a difference.

But you don't seem to distinguish.

The Other One wrote:

robert wrote:

The Other One wrote:

No, bobby, he does what he does out of his love for money.

so do you...

As do you. And apparently for your hate for Jews.

However, I do what I do honestly. I don't go on television and appeal for money to help Africa, then use the money to buy equipment for my organization's diamond mines in Africa. And that's just one example of Robertson's dishonesty. Not to mention his statements that things like 9-11 and Katrina were God's vengence against America. He's really no better than Phelps.

Speaking of Phelps. Just think how the country will view Kansas if we get Sam Brokeback for governor. I hope I don't have to explain why he would be viewed as a very backwards state

I've heard theories of how slaves single handedly built the US. I've heard theories of how Europeans stole all of their technology from Africans and then destroyed all of the evidence of higher technology in Africa to hide it. And I've heard theories about how the black US soldiers in the Civil War and Indian Wars were why the US won those conflicts. All theories that were coincidentally authored by individuals of African decsent.

Now we add the St. Dominque/Haitian Island slaves as the new savior of the US.

So according to this theory, If not for the slave revolt against the French, Napoleon might not have sold his claimed lands here to Jefferson, and the US west of the Mississippi might be under French rule.

First off, I doubt France would still be holding it, and had Napoleon attempted a takeover of New Orleans the US would have likely stepped in to block him. And suppose the slave revolt in what's now Haiti did keep Napoleon from attempting to expand into the Louisiana Territory. What does that mean?

Maybe we also would have to thank France for using slaves, and thank Jefferson for supporting Napoleon because without those factors there'd have been no revolt, and Napoleon could have had tens of thousands of troops sitting in St. Dominque to send to New Orleans.

In reality, if Africa had been left all alone there would likely be very low numbers of persons of African descent in Europe, the US, and many other places. Instead of being millionaires and billionaires, Bill Cosby, and Michael Jordon might be hunting monkeys. Michael Jackson might be molesting those monkeys, and Oprah's saggy titties might be in the pages of National Geographic as she demonstrates how to cook one.

But of course had everyone left Africa alone hundreds of years ago, it'd have likely been overtaken in the last century by one of the superpowers and its inhabitants killed off for their gold, oil, etc. There'd be no rich rap stars, no black sports heros, no US execs of color, and our current presidents daddy might have deposited his sperm in Oprah's mom in a grass hut.

Maybe all things considered, the blacks should be thanking Europeans and Americans for slavery. History is all how you look at it.

The Other One wrote:

robert wrote:

i dislike zionists. not jews. there is a difference.

But you don't seem to distinguish.

sure i do.

Zionism, in it's basic form, is about having a place to call home free of persecution.

So....

Actually it's an extremist view of Utopia that is to be inflicted upon the rest of us at the end of a gun.

robert wrote:

Actually it's an extremist view of Utopia that is to be inflicted upon the rest of us at the end of a gun.

Zionists or isrialis?

Robert is right on the Zionist issue. Zionists are on record for stabbing fellow Jews in the back, for supporting violence, and pretty much have a willingness to sacrifice anyone else to further their goals.

Not all Israelis are Zionists. Not all Zionists are Israeli. Many Israeli Jews see Zionism as a threat.

Ratzilla wrote:

Robert is right on the Zionist issue. Zionists are on record for stabbing fellow Jews in the back, for supporting violence, and pretty much have a willingness to sacrifice anyone else to further their goals.

Not all Israelis are Zionists. Not all Zionists are Israeli. Many Israeli Jews see Zionism as a threat.

But bobby equates all Jews with extremists, just the way some (or many) Americans equate all Arabs with extremists.

The Other One wrote:

Ratzilla wrote:

Robert is right on the Zionist issue. Zionists are on record for stabbing fellow Jews in the back, for supporting violence, and pretty much have a willingness to sacrifice anyone else to further their goals.

Not all Israelis are Zionists. Not all Zionists are Israeli. Many Israeli Jews see Zionism as a threat.

But bobby equates all Jews with extremists, just the way some (or many) Americans equate all Arabs with extremists.

i did not know i did that.

I didn't really think robert was totally anti-jew, just the Israeli government and those who cater to them. And more of the world should be because even some Israeli Jews don't always think their governments Zionist ideals are best for the health of the nation.

am a historian, not a foreign correspondent or aid worker, but I wanted to see for myself what life was like in this haunted nation. Notables including Ban Ki-moon, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton have visited Haiti in the past couple of months, highlighting the fact that the country is poised on the brink of what could be a humanitarian crisis of terrifying proportions.

In the 1960s, Papa Doc decorated the “Welcome to Haiti” sign at Port-au-Prince’s airport with the dismembered corpses of his enemies. At least they’ve taken those down. Instead there’s a calypso band playing for tips, and a swarm of hustling taxi drivers. Immediately I hear the epithet by which I will be known for the next week: la blanche, the white woman.

At the hotel in the relatively affluent suburb of Pétionville, there is a long list of rules. Don’t go out alone. Don’t walk more than two kilometres in any direction. Don’t go out after dark at all. If you hear gunshots, stay inside. Smile at the man toting an assault rifle who stands at the hotel entrance. He’s here for your protection.

Just why is Haiti in such a dire situation, so much worse than any other country in the Americas, and as bad as anywhere on Earth? Some blame the United Nations. Some blame the Americans. Some have theories about the collision of global warming with global capitalism. All are careful to point out that the Haitian elite deserves its reputation for being greedy, negligent and kleptocratic. “I think the Haitian people have been made to suffer by God,” Wilbert, a teacher, tells me, “but the time will come soon when we will be rewarded with Heaven.”

History tells a different story. The appalling state of the country is a direct result of having offended a quite different celestial authority — the French. France gained the western third of the island of Hispaniola — the territory that is now Haiti — in 1697. It planted sugar and coffee, supported by an unprecedented increase in the importation of African slaves. Economically, the result was a success, but life as a slave was intolerable. Living conditions were squalid, disease was rife, and beatings and abuses were universal. The slaves’ life expectancy was 21 years. After a dramatic slave uprising that shook the western world, and 12 years of war, Haiti finally defeated Napoleon’s forces in 1804 and declared independence. But France demanded reparations: 150m francs, in gold.

For Haiti, this debt did not signify the beginning of freedom, but the end of hope. Even after it was reduced to 60m francs in the 1830s, it was still far more than the war-ravaged country could afford. Haiti was the only country in which the ex-slaves themselves were expected to pay a foreign government for their liberty. By 1900, it was spending 80% of its national budget on repayments. In order to manage the original reparations, further loans were taken out — mostly from the United States, Germany and France. Instead of developing its potential, this deformed state produced a parade of nefarious leaders, most of whom gave up the insurmountable task of trying to fix the country and looted it instead. In 1947, Haiti finally paid off the original reparations, plus interest. Doing so left it destitute, corrupt, disastrously lacking in investment and politically volatile. Haiti was trapped in a downward spiral, from which it is still impossible to escape. It remains hopelessly in debt to this day.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6281614.ece

interesting....

The author wrote:

hopelessly in debt

Sounds like this country.

The Other One wrote:

The author wrote:

hopelessly in debt

Sounds like this country.

Being stupid enough to pay restitution to someone you beat in a war sounds like this country too.

Don't mean to kick a country when it's down, but any nation so totally devoid of common sense as to give in and pay compensation to a nation for the very reason they went to war with them, and even go into debt with that very nation they defeated by borrowing from them to pay it has nobody to blame for their hardships but their own idiotic leaders.

Holy crap, that's one of the dumbest things I ever heard.