ACORN - How will they weasel out of this one?

The Other One wrote:

Ratzilla wrote:

Robert is correct that Halliburton hosed us for millions.

And about the killing/raping of children?

I didn't comment on that because I havn't heard it on the news, nor read about anything unusual though I admit I watch/read less news all the time. I would expect isolated criminal acts among any large work force, but have yet to hear any wide scale complaints of Halliburton employees. The Pentagon complaints about Halliburton price gouging in Iraq, Bush's lackluster response, and Cheney still having Stock in the company did however make network news so I pointed that out.

If I remember correctly, the killing/raping of children was by soldiers. Well, it was just one child, and they killed her and her family. Some Blackwater/Xe employees killed some civilians for no apparent reason, don't know if any of them were children. The KBR/Halliburton rape case that got the most publicity only involved KBR/Halliburton employees. That particular company practically never comes in contact with the general population in Iraq. I know I never did. Any of these stories are easy enough to google.

Marfark wrote:

If I remember correctly, the killing/raping of children was by soldiers. Well, it was just one child, and they killed her and her family. Some Blackwater/Xe employees killed some civilians for no apparent reason, don't know if any of them were children. The KBR/Halliburton rape case that got the most publicity only involved KBR/Halliburton employees. That particular company practically never comes in contact with the general population in Iraq. I know I never did. Any of these stories are easy enough to google.

So bobby distorted the facts to fit his agenda. Isn't that what he and other far-lefties accuse anyone who doesn't agree with them of doing?

The Other One wrote:

Marfark wrote:

If I remember correctly, the killing/raping of children was by soldiers. Well, it was just one child, and they killed her and her family. Some Blackwater/Xe employees killed some civilians for no apparent reason, don't know if any of them were children. The KBR/Halliburton rape case that got the most publicity only involved KBR/Halliburton employees. That particular company practically never comes in contact with the general population in Iraq. I know I never did. Any of these stories are easy enough to google.

So bobby distorted the facts to fit his agenda. Isn't that what he and other far-lefties accuse anyone who doesn't agree with them of doing?

I think the point he was making was that our tax dollars paid for this stuff, and that's true. He just got the details wrong. It DOES sound better to say that Halliburton did all of it. So lets just pretend.

Marfark wrote:

The Other One wrote:

Marfark wrote:

If I remember correctly, the killing/raping of children was by soldiers. Well, it was just one child, and they killed her and her family. Some Blackwater/Xe employees killed some civilians for no apparent reason, don't know if any of them were children. The KBR/Halliburton rape case that got the most publicity only involved KBR/Halliburton employees. That particular company practically never comes in contact with the general population in Iraq. I know I never did. Any of these stories are easy enough to google.

So bobby distorted the facts to fit his agenda. Isn't that what he and other far-lefties accuse anyone who doesn't agree with them of doing?

I think the point he was making was that our tax dollars paid for this stuff, and that's true. He just got the details wrong. It DOES sound better to say that Halliburton did all of it. So lets just pretend.

So you want to pretend that ACORN is all above board and honest, too?

The Other One wrote:

Marfark wrote:

The Other One wrote:

Marfark wrote:

If I remember correctly, the killing/raping of children was by soldiers. Well, it was just one child, and they killed her and her family. Some Blackwater/Xe employees killed some civilians for no apparent reason, don't know if any of them were children. The KBR/Halliburton rape case that got the most publicity only involved KBR/Halliburton employees. That particular company practically never comes in contact with the general population in Iraq. I know I never did. Any of these stories are easy enough to google.

So bobby distorted the facts to fit his agenda. Isn't that what he and other far-lefties accuse anyone who doesn't agree with them of doing?

I think the point he was making was that our tax dollars paid for this stuff, and that's true. He just got the details wrong. It DOES sound better to say that Halliburton did all of it. So lets just pretend.

So you want to pretend that ACORN is all above board and honest, too?

No. I've changed my mind. I'd rather pretend that ACORN is the very incarnation of government corruption. At the same time, I'll pretend that the military industrial complex is above board and honest, like myself. See what I did? Now I'm a Good Guy!

Marfark wrote:

No. I've changed my mind. I'd rather pretend that ACORN is the very incarnation of government corruption. At the same time, I'll pretend that the military industrial complex is above board and honest, like myself. See what I did? Now I'm a Good Guy!

Aren't you a part of that military industrial complex?

And nobody ever defended any wrong done by anyone, including Halliburton. The point was that stonedbobby distorted the facts to suit his personal agenda.

The Other One wrote:

Aren't you a part of that military industrial complex?

Yeah. I'm a complex and sensitive mercenary.

Marfark wrote:

I'm a complex and sensitive mercenary.

That makes it sound like you're doing business out of Barney Frank's apartment.

"Bush gave a speech the other day, or I should say damage control about the NIE about IRAN’s nuclear ambitions; one of the reporters ask Bush about the young girl that was gang raped in Saudi Arabia, and his recent phone call with one of the Sheiks over there, and if the topic of this girl came up and what was being done to protect this girl. Supposedly the men who raped this girl are getting off scott free and she is to be given 200 lashes and put it jail for going public with the allogations. Bush gave some bullshit answer about they know where we stand on this issue, but continued to skate all around the question, and quicky went to another question. This kind of thing is happening all the time, and our supposed “christian leaders” turn their head and look the other way. Makes me really think, What Would God Do?, What would the Devil Do? Which side do you think our so called “leaders” are on?"



she was 14... funny thing about fighting wars in countries that are repressive of women... it does them no good to report it, in fact, they themselves are punished. the fact that you only looked at the top ten searches before you started spewing about exaggerated claims does little to boost confidence in your intellect or reasoning skills. in afghanistan we see them drinking vodka shots out of each others rectums... to let off steam... jesus EP u really are a tool.

"Order 17, approved by Paul Bremer, exempts American military contractors from being prosecuted for crimes under the Iraqi criminal justice system. As a result, not a single U.S. contractor has been tried for a violent crime in Iraq, despite overwhelming evidence that contractors have committed atrocities against both their fellow Americans and Iraqi civilians."

http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/82942/at_war_with_ourselves:_battling_sexual_violence_in_the_military/

and your heroes EP have been shielding them, because for hundreds of years guys like you think its OK... you know... to the victor go the spoils... i may be high EP... but i'm on the side of doing the right thing... you don't seem to have much empathy for the plight of some of your fellow humans... i'd rather be me any day... but this thread is about ACORN... so i'm gonna use the standard Republican mantra... those ACORN incidents were just a few bad apples...

and no it wasn't just halliburton... google dyncorp... talk to a vietnam era veteran, or veteran of any conflict for that matter.... Soldiers abuse females in war zones... and our governments condone it...

Dont look dont tell

http://statismwatch.ca/2008/06/16/dont-look-dont-tell-troops-told/

A Star story Saturday detailed an allegation levelled by Schouten that during his tour, he heard an Afghan national army soldier abusing a young boy and then saw the boy afterwards with visible signs of rape trauma, his bowels and lower intestines falling out of his body.


U ok with this crap EP? Im ashamed of you. u should be too. your animosity towards me has wrested control of your better judgement...

I think this is relevant:

Republican Senators for Rape

Quote :

Ray St. Louis Column: Allow rape victims to sue? Not these leaders


The story has not gotten much airplay in the United States. I only learned the details of it from an online article written for the British newspaper The Guardian.

Major American news organizations have barely touched on the story – specifically, a December 2007 piece by ABC News, and, more recently, a sprinkling of articles and opinion columns in such widely geographically separated newspapers as the San Francisco Chronicle, The Tennessean and The Dallas Morning News.

The reason for the recent mini-flurry of activity was an amendment added to a Senate appropriations bill by freshly sworn-in Minnesota Sen. Al Franken.

Franken’s amendment would bar the U.S. government from contracting with companies that require employees who are victims of rape to submit to company arbitration rather than taking their attackers to court.

Rather cut and dried you would think, right? No senator would vote against something that is meant to protect the victims of sexual assault, would they?

Well, yes they would. In fact, thirty of them did.

Lamar Alexander (R-TN), John Barrasso (R-WY), Christopher Bond (R-MO), Sam Brownback (R-KS), Jim Bunning (R-KY), Richard Burr (R-NC)…


In 2005, a young woman named Jamie Leigh Jones, who was working in Iraq for Halliburton subsidiary KBR, joined some of her fellow workers for a few drinks after work.

It was then, Jones contends, that she was first drugged and then repeatedly raped by as many as seven male KBR employees. A U.S. army doctor who treated Jones handed over forensic evidence supporting the rape allegations to KBR.

Company officials responded by, believe it or not, placing Jones in a shipping container under guard to prevent her from initiating legal action. She was not freed until more than 24 hours later after her father asked the U.S. Embassy to intervene.

…Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Tom Coburn (R-OK), Thad Cochran (R-MS), Bob Corker (R-TN), John Cornyn (R-TX), Mike Crapo (R-ID)…

Halliburton/KBR defended itself by saying Jones was threatening to violate the terms of her work contract. It seems all company employees are required to sign a contract that includes a clause, buried in the small print, mandating all employee disputes go to company-managed binding arbitration.

This is something corporations, especially those operating in war zones, have started doing to avoid both bad publicity and legal action directed at themselves.

Halliburton/KBR’s position was that even allegations of gang rape amounted to little more than a dispute between employees.

Jones says she wasn’t even aware of the clause in the work contract. She has been fighting the company’s lawyers since 2005 to get her day in court.

…Jim DeMint (R-SC), John Ensign (R-NV), Michael Enzi (R-WY), Lindsey Graham (R- SC), Judd Gregg (R- NH), James Inhofe (R-OK)…

Jones’ lawyer, Todd Kerry, says Halliburton/KBR along with other big contractors have created a climate in which some employees feel they can get away with sexual assault.

By forcing such incidents to arbitration, the company allows perpetrators to walk away with little more that a slap on the wrist after committing serious felonies.

Kerry said one of Jones’ assailants “was so confident nothing would happen that he was lying in bed next to her the morning after.”

Kerry said he has received up to 40 calls over the past two years detailing other assaults at Halliburton/KBR.

…Johnny Isakson (R-GA), Mike Johanns (R-NE), Jon Kyl (R-AZ), John McCain (R- AZ), Mitch McConnell (R-KY), James Risch (R-ID)…

Earlier this month, Franken spoke on the Senate floor after introducing his amendment to the 2010 Defense Appropriations bill:

“The constitution gives everybody the right to due process of law … And today, defense contractors are using fine print in their contracts to deny women like Jamie Leigh Jones their day in court. … The victims of rape and discrimination deserve their day in court (and) Congress plainly has the constitutional power to make that happen.”

Hard to disagree, wouldn’t you say? Not if you’re one of the 30 senators, all Republicans, who voted “Nay” to Franken Amendment No. 2588.

They say the government has no business intervening in private company matters.

…Pat Roberts (R-KS), Jeff Sessions (R-AL), Richard Shelby (R-AL), John Thune (R-SD), David Vitter (R-LA), Robert Wicker (R-MS).

I guess it all depends on your perspective, and who you put first -- people or corporations.

Ray St. Louis’ column, “Between The Lines,” is published in The North Florida Herald the second and fourth Thursdays of each month. Comments can be left at his blog at:

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY: THE PARTY OF FAMILY VALUES

I hear that Dyncorp is a good company to work for. I'll probably contact one of their recruiters in a year or two. My current contracting job is good enough for now. Right now I'm doing some training in Texas with some other contractors and some Army NCO's. Most of the contractors are former military, and most of the Army guys say that they plan to get contracting jobs at some point. We're essentially the same group of people. We contractors are (generally) just in an older and (relatively) wiser stage of development. Most of us are heading for Afghanistan in a few weeks. I'm looking forward to it.

I can say with confidence that I and most of my coworkers have not raped anybody recently. I don't know how the rates of sexual assault within the military-industrial complex compare to the general population. It might be googlable. I wonder how they would compare to the rates within other groups of heavily armed young men. I suspect they're similar. I don't disagree with the hand-wringing over this issue. It's all kinds of fukced up. But I think that the outrage is a bit misguided. If you want to stop sexual assault in war zones, you need to work on changing the nature of warfare, or better yet human nature itself. That's what it would take. Good luck with that.


Regarding the article Bighead posted:

I remember them talking about binding arbitration when I was hired on with KBR. It was supposed to be handled by an impartial third party. We did sign some papers that essentially said we could not sue the company. Also, they told us that we were subject to the UCMJ while in a war zone. So the perpetrators SHOULD still be subject to criminal prosecution (assuming that KBR told me the truth. heh.)

When you read an article about OFFICIAL actions of KBR employees in Iraq , it's important to keep the context in mind. The division of that company operating in Iraq and Afghanistan essentially has no hiring standards. If you can pass a drug test and you can get a passport, they'll believe whatever you put on a resume. So when KBR commits some absurd/negligent/horrendous action, that really means that some mouth-breather that they hired has screwed up. It doesn't necessarily mean that KBR=Kill Bribe Rape. IMO, KBR=Keep Bringing Retards.

robert wrote:

U ok with this crap EP? Im ashamed of you. u should be too. your animosity towards me has wrested control of your better judgement...

Read Marfark's post for a better perspective than you'll ever have. And I never said I was okay with any of it, but it still doesn't excuse any of the actions of ACORN.

By the way, you're confusing animosity with making fun of you.

I'm in no way supporting big business being able to put things in contracts forbidding employees from taking legal actions against fellow employees, but the fact that Al Franken is pushing a bill forbidding contracting with such companies sends up a red flag for me. There's something very very wrong if Franken wants it.

I watched Franken before and he's the biggest promoter of false propaganda I ever saw. He makes Limbaugh look like an amature. Don't make judgements too quickly here guys. Franken always has shady under the table agendas behind his actions.

Order 17 isn't an illusion. nor is it al frankens propaganda. its meant to shield troops and contractors from being tried, convicted, and punished in foreign countries. in the states; shoplifting (largely regarded as a petty crime) is punished by probation and occasionally a small jail term for multiple violations. In Saudi Arabia it leads to a missing hand. so it's understandable why we'd not want our soldiers prosecuted under foreign laws. makes sense to some degree. Unfortunately, it's also known as the Rape pillage plunder law by less than ethical soldiers and is widely abused. "contractors" AKA "mercenaries" kill for money and its hard to control them with any rules because they exempt themselves from any laws, and the federal government is complicit in this. saying the law can't necessarily be bad just because franken is against it is lazy and inexcusable from you ratz. the "shady agenda" here i believe is to allow women both "in service" and "contracting" to have some means of (at a loss for words here since justice isn't what you really get when someone rapes you even if they go to jail) uhm.. uh... well ladies speak up whats the word here?

The Other One wrote:

Marfark wrote:

I'm a complex and sensitive mercenary.

That makes it sound like you're doing business out of Barney Frank's apartment.

yu r intelignt...

I didn't say I thought the legislation Franken was pushing was all bad robert, which I thought I stated. I said if Al Franken supports something there's something more than him wanting to see the right thing done behind his actions. He's a weasel that would throw away half our Constitutional rights for a nickle.

and i won't argue that franken ain't a piece of crud, he is. and as for selling our constitutional rights for a nickel, well he'd probably start the bidding at a dollar first...

Franken was born in New York City to Phoebe G. Kunst, a homemaker and real estate agent, and Joseph P. Franken, a printing salesman, and grew up in St. Louis Park, a suburb near Minneapolis.[6][7] Franken had a Jewish upbringing.[8] He is a cousin of MSNBC's Bob Franken,[9] and his older brother, Owen Franken, is a photojournalist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Franken

wonder why he hates america so much. we give his people soooooo much money and yet he remains ungrateful, even turned his homeland into a tax deductible charity, jesus (lol) what more could he want? heh heh

but i'm guessing (and this is only a guess) he's also anti-rape and stuff (might be the whole germany thing). wish he didn't have so many other alternative motives, it'd make this much easier.

That's the problem with any legislation Franken backs. Everyone across the aisle will always wonder what that slimy bastard is really after. A few on his own side of the aisle probably don't trust him either.