Infant Death in Hays

CelticDragon wrote:

Several years ago there was a similar kind of thing that involved an employee in that area. (She was a friend of a friend.) She was on the slow side. She had to be at work before her sister could take care of the baby, so she would leave her baby in the car in the parking lot for something like 15-30 minutes after she had to be to work. It took a few days for someone to notice and she was turned into the authorities. I don't know what happened, but I heard she kept the kid... they must have made allowances for her not understanding what could happen.

I was wondering if maybe something like that happened here and the person supposed to pick the girl up didn't make it. If the government is going to let someone with problems keep their kids they should at least make sure things like proper daycare are being used.

stuff happens on accident..............another story-Oprah

This is a tragic accident that occurs more often than anyone would like to know...a quick google of "child left in car" lead me to this website: http://ggweather.com/heat/ (which already has Hays death in their stats)

It reports the following stats:

Quote :

Already in 2009 there have been nineteen deaths of infants after being left inside a hot vehicle. Last year there were a total of at least 43 such fatalities in the United States due to hyperthermia after they were left in hot cars, trucks, vans and SUV's. This sadly followed 36 and 29 child deaths in 2007 and 2006 respectively. Since 1998 there have been at least a total of 431 of these needless tragedies. This study shows that these incidents can occur on days with relatively mild (i.e., ~ 70 degrees F) temperatures and that vehicles can occur reach life-threatening temperatures very rapidly.

STATISTICS

* Total number of U.S. hyperthermia deaths of children left in cars, 2009: 19
* Total number of U.S. hyperthermia deaths of children left in cars, 2008: 43
* Total number of U.S. hyperthermia deaths of children left in cars, 1998-2009: 431
* Average number of U.S. child hyperthermia fatalities per year since 1998: 37

This man's life is already going to be a mess, no need for random people to send him hateful thoughts. Just shows that these accidents can and will happen anywhere and no one is exempt. I don't pray often, but I pray for this family.

Interesting, as I read more on that website, of the 431 over the last 10 years, 52% where "forgotten", 30% where kids playing in cars, AND 17% INTENTIONAL...so sad.

This man's life is already going to be a mess, no need for random people to send him hateful thoughts


AMEN!! We would all like to think this could never happen to us and I'm sure this family thought the same thing. So sad...my heart hurts for this family. I myself have a 3 month old and cann't imagine what would happen if I lost him! Prayers to the family.

Thoughts and prayers out to this family.......its a sad day for them..............

Gossip Alert...Story I heard...so take it as you may:

Mom works at HMC and was running late and packed up kids stuff and may have actually put the child in the Husbands vehicle. Husband also running late, pulled into Glassman where coworkers are waiting for him to load up and head to Ellis, where he was working at a job site all day (thus the reason he didn't go to his vehicle during the day, like at lunch). Mom called babysitter to say she will pick up child a few minutes late and babysitter says child never dropped off. Mom can't get a hold of husband and rushes up to Glassman, the Mom may have been the one to dial 911 and not sure if she found child in car or someone else.


I will say, there is no excuse, but I can understand how something like this could happen. Think about it, if these are the facts, then the husband may have actually seen his wife leave the house with the child (as she was putting the baby in his vehicle), she probably told him in their frantic that he need to take the baby to the sitter, but saw her leave...you would hope he would have looked in the vehicle to make sure, but if he was running late also....

This whole thing just hurts my heart.

I think as sad as this situation is that we don't need to be adding to their grief and heartache here. Life today is very hectic and I can see confusion like this occuring in the morning rush to get everyone up and ready and off to work for the day on time. I think this was truly an accident and no amount of criticism is going to change the fact that a family lost a baby. I can only imagine what the parents must be feeling over this. In light of things , I would like to suggest that the thread name be changed to reflect a less critical title.

Name of the victim is now available on the internet.

omg, I know them. Quite well. wow.

knowing him personally, I cant even imagine what they are going through. The father is a wonderful guy.

what is really sad to see is the comments by some of the folks that are just downright vicious and cruel. Most likely the same people making these mean comments will only do so on the internet and wouldn't have the backbone to say things like that to anyone face to face. The Hays Daily article has a long list of comments, most of them from pretty caring folks that are very sympathetic about the tragedy, but there are some folks saying things that would be best left unsaid at this point in time.

Luke I just got done reading those.... Some people can be cruel

judge not, lest ye be judged & let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

One of the problems with the internet that the admin/mods know all too well...under the vail of anonymity, people will say some pretty mean stuff.

LukeTHr wrote:

judge not, lest ye be judged & let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I second that!!!!

I can't imagine...
the pain of the family,
the guilt of the family member who forgot,
how I would feel in their position.

I can't imagine that it could happen to me- but I'm human after all.

This is only I think my 5th post on here. I prefer to read the gossip vs post. I was going to say this earlier today, but didn't have time. I agree with LukeTHr. The second the news was out, everyone was ready to lync the parents. Without knowing the story, names, circumstances, etc. I hope the posters who were quick to judge have had a chance to think things out and realize accidents DO happen and a family is grieving over their loss. One might think that they could never do anything like this themselves, yet life has a way of making the unthinkable happen.

I don't know the family and don't know the truth of what happened. However I couldn't imagine anyone doing this intentionally. The are going thru enough emotion right now without having to learn the people of their community are posting such cruel and judgemental comments about them on a public board.

People are always quick to volunteer, go to church, donate to Goodwill, then will stab a fellow in the back because of heresay. I thought we were all better than that? Why not offer prays and thoughts instead of anger and hatred?

some of the biggest hypocrites I have ever known were regular holier-than-thou church-goers. I am not say that all church folks are that way but some of the worst offenders were

LukeTHr wrote:

some of the biggest hypocrites I have ever known were regular holier-than-thou church-goers. I am not say that all church folks are that way but some of the worst offenders were

There are some church doctrines that would second that statement...I'm not saying which ones...

I cannot believe the things people are saying over there.Why is the paper letting them post those things?

wilkykav2 wrote:

I cannot believe the things people are saying over there.Why is the paper letting them post those things?

Wow. Really. you should call them and complain.

628-1081

I reacted with anger when I first heard about this tragedy, I think most people do, it's an automatic response when a baby is involved. Then I started thinking a bit more about it, how it might have happened, the horror involved not to mention the guilt. It is something no one should ever have to deal with. My thoughts are with these people whose day started out as a normal day, not knowing that their lives would be upside down by the end of the day. It will be a very long time, if ever, until they find peace.

I haven't posted in awhile, but this seems to be a note worthy topic. Yes, I have been called a b*tch several times in my lifetime, and this is probably going to be another one. I am sure that people will disagree with what I have to say, but here it goes.

There is no reason, no excuse to forget about a child being left in a car, at home alone, at the store unattended anything. When you are a parent you are supposed to pull your head out of your *ss and be responsible. I am not saying that these parents aren't because I don't know them. I know they must feel horrible for what has happened, but they were wrong. Leaving the lights on, stove on, groceries in the car is one thing. Forgetting your child that you brought into this world to take care of and raise into a responsible adult is another. I do not wish their misery on them at all because they will have to live with this the rest of their lives. I just can't understand how parents can forget.

lisav wrote:

I reacted with anger when I first heard about this tragedy, I think most people do, it's an automatic response when a baby is involved. Then I started thinking a bit more about it, how it might have happened, the horror involved not to mention the guilt. It is something no one should ever have to deal with. My thoughts are with these people whose day started out as a normal day, not knowing that their lives would be upside down by the end of the day. It will be a very long time, if ever, until they find peace.

Yeah I was rather angry at first yesterday about the situation and I overracted a bit in on my posts and for that i'm sorry. It's a horrible thing to have happen. I'm sure after hearing the details that it was a horrible accident. Its going to be a rough time for this family to cope with this.

I can't believe HDN hasnt done anything about those comments yet!!

yeah and we were the bad forum before!

I guess we found the solution to posts someone doesn't like. Just ask a mod or the owner to change it.

I feel sorry for this family, and nothing should happen to these parents because the punishment couldn't be worse than what they are dealing with. But I'm with doodlevw on this. There is no job, no task more important than taking care of that kid. This isn't forgetting to pick your ten year old up from ball practice. This isn't a momentary mistake of forgetting to look behind the vehicle before backing out and hitting a toddler that strayed in the way.

Granted, this may have been two parents who both thought the other had the kid, but If I were going to expect my spouse to take our 3 month old to a sitter, I'd make 110% sure they heard me say so. And why didn't the sitter call either of them when no one showed? The ball was dropped badly here and the only thing more sad than what happened is that parents would be so worried about being to work on time that their 3 month old daughter was lost in the middle.

Another nurse can tend to a patient. Another employee can drive a supply truck, and if they're 10 minutes late, it's an inconvienence. That kid was totally helpless and dependant on them and had only them.

Sometime back a woman forgot her kid in a car seat on top the vehicle and drove off. Another mistake brought on by being in a hurry. Another accident. But still a Darwin award.

unfortunately thats the way the world is now. There is much less tolerance for being late, or having to miss work to stay at home with kids etc. Employers put so much pressure on their employees and finding and keeping a good job is important this day and age..

I think in light of the situation that maybe we shouldn't be so harsh on these people. Like you stated rat, there is no punishment we can give them that will be any more severe than what they are going thru now, but for us as people to criticize and condemn in this type of situation is only cold and callous. I know as a parent that when stress is high and things are hectic, things can be forgotten, especially in a situation in which a normal routine is changed.
I don't think the Darwin award is quite approriate in occurences like this.

Quote :

WICHITA, Kansas -- The Hays baby death is a scenario that has already played out 11 times across the nation in June and it will likely happen again soon. July is generally the worst month for infant hyperthermia in cars.

Think it could never happen to you? Experts say that's the worst mistake you can make.

In Hays police say the three month old baby left in the back of a hot car was an unfortunate accident.

It's the eighth such documented death in Kansas since 2000. Two summers ago a seven-month-old baby in Ulysses died after her mother went to work at the hospital and forgot the baby was in the car.

"The biggest thing we need people to understand is this can literally happen to anyone," said Janette Fennell, president and founder of Kids and Cars, a child advocacy group.

They've been tracking such deaths and say in the majority of cases the accidents happen to what they call "doting parents" everyone from a police officer to a construction worker to a pediatrician.

An extensive article by the Washington Post quotes a professor of physiology and memory expert who has researched how parents could possibly forget their child.

"The quality of prior parental care seems to be irrelevant," David Diamond told the Washington Post. "The important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine."

In such cases he says your mind goes on autopilot.

"It really is a function of how our memories work and how our brain lets us down," said Fennell.

The problem started getting worse in the early 1990's when child safety experts realized putting children in the back seat is safer. We also know turning them around to face the back of the car is even better. Still all this puts them out of sight of parents.

Kids in cars isn't recommending children be moved back to the front seat but says there are things parents can do. Like putting a brief case or something in the back seat so you get in the habit of opening the back door and making arrangements with your child care provider to call you if your child isn't there as scheduled.

Kids and Cars is pushing for legislation requiring sensors that would alert parents when back seat belts remain locked.

So are the child safety experts partly to blame too by saying kids should be in the back seat?

Quote :

Kids and Cars is pushing for legislation requiring sensors that would alert parents when back seat belts remain locked.

That wouldn't do much good if you have a child in a forward facing seat that remains in the vehicle. It would always stay locked, the alert would go off and the parent would learn to ignore it like the seat belt dinger.

I'm aware of all the facts Luke, and I saw the same story about car seats. But this was a 3 month old entirely dependant on them. Maybe it's because I was raised on the idea that when you don't hear the kid is when you go check on them.

One time I closed the garage up without looking around and closed a cat inside. She had kittens and skinned her head pretty bad trying to get out to them. A day later we found her in there, but her kittens were dead. I have felt stupid since for not checking around before closing that door and always will.

Once I was running late for work when one of our cats wanted in but he was young and was afraid to go past the older tomcat to get inside. I didn't wait for him. I said "Oh you'll be ok outside today" and went to work. He got into something poison that day and died.

While those were instances where I didn't expect problems, I now always check buildings before closing the door and I'll never put my job ahead of taking care of my family or pets again.

I hold no ill will against these parents. I feel really badly for them. But a completely helpless infant is not something to assume the other person took care of.

nobodysbusiness wrote:

Quote :

Kids and Cars is pushing for legislation requiring sensors that would alert parents when back seat belts remain locked.

That wouldn't do much good if you have a child in a forward facing seat that remains in the vehicle. It would always stay locked, the alert would go off and the parent would learn to ignore it like the seat belt dinger.

How about a small mirror set up in the back that would reflect in the rear view mirror that could be aimed at the child seat in back? Or maybe a flag on the top of the infant carriers that would show above the front seat that could be flipped up or down depending on whether it's in use?

It's too late to wonder why this happened, but there's got to be some ideas that could reduce the problem.

Shit happens....hopefully it will raise some awareness to folks with young uns

One of the first things I bought when I had my daughter was a mirror to stick on the windshield that was pointed right at her car seat.

CelticDragon wrote:

One of the first things I bought when I had my daughter was a mirror to stick on the windshield that was pointed right at her car seat.

That's good for many reasons, but I was thinking of something for those carriers that mount backwards out of sight from the front. I don't want to see the cost of vehicles skyrocket from new devices, but I sure hate seeing families have to deal with things like this. There should be some cheap fixes like the flag I was talking about that would at least give parents more safety options. If a parent were too hurried to flip a flag into the up position as they strap the kid in they are in way too much of a hurry.

I can't believe the HDN, after all the negative comments about this tragic death once again an article is printed allowing a response.

plowboy, have you read the article and I'm not talking about the one on the front page. I'm talking about the four page article reprinted from the Washington Post. It is a very good article about other parents who went throught the same thing. I suggest you read it word for word. I'm sure that the folks who condemed Elle's parents will also condem these other parents but I don't. God is the only judge and I pray that people who are in this situation will never lose thair faith because it may be the only thing that will get them through their sorrow and guilt.

I can't believe Hays Daily has another article up for comments. Shows that they really don't care about the family. Regardless of what your opinion is, I don't think they should allow comments on any of those types of articles.

I read the article Lyric. It was very touching and I just assumed they publish that to see the full picture, that this happens a lot and it's compassion that's really need to be shown here. I refuse to look at the comments on HDN on any of that again.

The parents know a tragic mistake was made, and they always will. Trying to understand how it happens and prevent this in the future is good and these parents might find some peace in their loss if trying to learn about it helps others to be able to avoid the same. No commentary otherwise is needed. Hopefully HDN will screen out any such comments and stick to useful information.

I read the article and it helped me to understand how this can happen, and a little insight on how these people felt and what they went through.

nobodysbusiness wrote:

I can't believe Hays Daily has another article up for comments. Shows that they really don't care about the family. Regardless of what your opinion is, I don't think they should allow comments on any of those types of articles.

Really the opposite, it shows me that the Hays Daily news does care about this family and is trying to educate the community and show that this man is not the bad person that some want to believe. I did some research that day I heard and posted some stats and what not, but this Washington Post article is such a great article and I usually lose interest in long worded stories (and why I don't read everything on the forum).

I applaud them for post the article and showing us that this can happen to anyone, ANYONE.

you misunderstand me lilchefed. I fully agree about the big article "fatal distraction". I was referring to the one about how it was the first time any of the officers/ems workers had to work an accident like this.

If a child was left in a car accidentally but was found and survived yet suffered brain damage, would charges be filed? Would Social Services get involved and remove the child from the home?

nitromaxx98 wrote:

If a child was left in a car accidentally but was found and survived yet suffered brain damage, would charges be filed? Would Social Services get involved and remove the child from the home?

Was it a Vega ?

Dunno, hypothetical question.

lilchefed wrote:

nobodysbusiness wrote:

I can't believe Hays Daily has another article up for comments. Shows that they really don't care about the family. Regardless of what your opinion is, I don't think they should allow comments on any of those types of articles.

Really the opposite, it shows me that the Hays Daily news does care about this family and is trying to educate the community and show that this man is not the bad person that some want to believe. I did some research that day I heard and posted some stats and what not, but this Washington Post article is such a great article and I usually lose interest in long worded stories (and why I don't read everything on the forum).

I applaud them for post the article and showing us that this can happen to anyone, ANYONE.

I havn't read any of the comments submitted to HDN but I've been told some of them were extremely mean. Whether or not HDN should allow hostile commentary is a long debate in itself. In reality there wasn't much community support at all until it was learned that this wasn't someone intentionally leaving their kid in a car. And at first it wasn't known that it was a three month old. It was first reported as an adolescent for reasons unknown, and with Adrionics right next door it led most to think it was just a mother not wanting to pay for a sitter.

Now that more is known the debate has shifted. According to the Post article this can happen to anyone, but it doesn't have to. As stated in that article this isn't intentional, but it isn't really an accident either. A tire didn't blow unexpectedly and send the vehicle rolling. It was stress, lack of rest, fear of losing a job, or other factors causing priorities in the mind to shift blocking out the infant.

This does not mean the parents are bad. They will suffer with this mistake forever. But it is a mistake. Our society has caused us to worry about jobs and scheduals so much that a parent could forget his own offspring. This is not a sad statement about the parent, but rather a sad statement about our society that would cause them to place their job or anything else ahead of a 3 month old that had only them to depend on.

Ratzilla wrote:

This does not mean the parents are bad. They will suffer with this mistake forever. But it is a mistake. Our society has caused us to worry about jobs and scheduals so much that a parent could forget his own offspring. This is not a sad statement about the parent, but rather a sad statement about our society that would cause them to place their job or anything else ahead of a 3 month old that had only them to depend on.

By default then if someone is late for work or an appointment, etc. should strike and kill a pedestrian all should be forgiven because they were distracted by being in a hurry?