Americans Moving to Mexico in Search of the American Dream

“For decades you’ve had three kinds of Americans coming here,” said Ramon Segura, an importer-exporter with decades of experience working with foreign nationals.

“Foremost are the retirees, who can have a higher standard of living in Mexico than they could in the U.S. Then there were the professionals who were sent here by their companies or were here on business. And of course, there were those trying to make a clean break from their pasts – usually men escaping alimony, child support, business failures or the country that sent them to Vietnam.”

But now there are two other kinds of Americans moving to Mexico: those who are starting or raising families and entrepreneurs seeking greater opportunities.

http://www.alternet.org/immigration/133953/many_americans_moving_to_mexico_in_search_of_the_american_dream/

The article doesn't state whether the went through legal channels to get there. I'll bet they did.

And your point is?

Bighead wrote:

And your point is?

Whose point?

Umm,it's the American way to get shit easily,no hard work involved anymore-----props(for lack of a more proper term)to those living on a pristeen beach for $150 a month in Mexico and looking in their suffering neighbors backyard across the street in the good 'ol USA

Justoo wrote:

The article doesn't state whether the went through legal channels to get there. I'll bet they did.

Bighead wrote:

And your point is?

The point is that anyone can go spend money in Mexico. But don't ask for government freebies and don't ask to buy Mexican property because unlike the US, those priveledges are reserved for Mexican citizens.

Justoo wrote:

Bighead wrote:

And your point is?

Whose point?

There I go being unclear again.

Yours.

Ratzilla wrote:

Justoo wrote:

The article doesn't state whether the went through legal channels to get there. I'll bet they did.

Bighead wrote:

And your point is?

The point is that anyone can go spend money in Mexico. But don't ask for government freebies and don't ask to buy Mexican property because unlike the US, those priveledges are reserved for Mexican citizens.

I'll take your word on the lack of freebies- likely true. I hope so for their sake.

But a prohibition on AmeriCANs buying property in Mexico? I seriously doubt that. Got a source for that?

The article did mention that some of those Americans that chose to live south of the border hired companies to assist them in accomplishing this. That suggests they paid big bucks for help manuevering through legal channels.

Most Mexicans coming north also hire professionals. They hire them to help them avoid legal channels.

If you don't get the point I doubt that you ever will.

Bighead wrote:

But a prohibition on AmeriCANs buying property in Mexico? I seriously doubt that. Got a source for that?

There are free areas, but in most of the desirable locations in Mexico a foreigner cannot legally hold direct title to property. It has to be set up as a trust or something like that, so the property remains Mexican property even if used by US citizens.

I think this link explains it.

http://www.mexonline.com/propmex.htm

That's interesting stuff, Ratzilla- I wasn't aware of it. In your previous post, were you suggesting that similar restrictions should be placed on non-citizens here in the U.S.?

Justoo wrote:

The article did mention that some of those Americans that chose to live south of the border hired companies to assist them in accomplishing this. That suggests they paid big bucks for help manuevering through legal channels.

Most Mexicans coming north also hire professionals. They hire them to help them avoid legal channels.

If you don't get the point I doubt that you ever will.

I wanted you to spell out your point... and you won't take the bait. So I'll give it a try- please correct me if I'm wrong:

If Justoo was getting right to the point, he would have wrote:

See? This article clearly shows that we lilly-white, God-fearing AmeriCANs are simply better human beings than those lazy brown wetbacks.

Am I close? Did I leave anything out?

Bighead wrote:

That's interesting stuff, Ratzilla- I wasn't aware of it. In your previous post, were you suggesting that similar restrictions should be placed on non-citizens here in the U.S.?

I'm not overly thrilled with outsiders buying US property, but so long as they do it legally and are not residing here illegally, pay taxes on it etc., etc., I won't complain. I do however strongly object to them gaining any kind of privileges or benefits that should only be available to our citizens.

Of course I would not deny true emergency medical assistance to anyone, but I do not consider an illegal giving birth emergency assistance because they knew months in advance they'd need medical care. In those cases I'd set the rule plainly. Baby is born here, it's a citizen. Mother and father are not, we'll take the brat on technicality but mom and dad get the fuck out.

Good job of painting a picture that depicts racism. But that ain't me.

I was trying to point out the one way street at the border. Americans (most) who wish to migrate will pay to use legal methods. Most Mexicans pay to use illegal methods. No racism there. It is a statistical fact. I saw a vehicle yesterday that had tags from the state of Chihuahua. Bet they came up legal. It can be done. If their labor is needed we need to change some rules to make it easier to immigrate legally.
I don't hate them. I would just like to see them use legal channels other than anchor babies.

Are you capable of a debate without name calling? I got real tired of that in elementary school.

I don't think I've ever called you a name, Justoo... for that matter, I don't think I've done that for anybody here (except maybe Nitro, and I'm sure he deserved it).

But it IS fun to speculate about motives. And I reckon that HOW a statement is phrased can be pretty damn indicative of intent. I thought it kinda odd that you'd contrast the (often) legal border crossings of us AmeriCANs with our mexican counterparts' (often) illegal border crossings as if there's some kind of MORAL issue at stake here.

Those people are dirt poor and desperate- a condition that I have a passing familiarity with. It's pretty easy to git up on that moral high-horse when you HAVE job prospects and you CAN afford to wait, pay, jump through the proper hoops, and follow the law. But in their circumstances, you likely wouldn't be any different. I wouldn't.

I don't have any simple answers on this immigration thing- though plenty of simpletons do (I'm not calling you a simpleton, Justoo... unless of course you pull out a 'simple' answer in your next post). My point is that it's ridiculous to view this as an 'us right'/'them wrong' moral issue. It ain't that simple.

Bighead wrote:

I don't think I've ever called you a name, Justoo... for that matter, I don't think I've done that for anybody here (except maybe Nitro, and I'm sure he deserved it).

I'm sure I did. It's a natural response as the thought process dwindles.

Bighead wrote:

Those people are dirt poor and desperate- a condition that I have a passing familiarity with. It's pretty easy to git up on that moral high-horse when you HAVE job prospects and you CAN afford to wait, pay, jump through the proper hoops, and follow the law. But in their circumstances, you likely wouldn't be any different. I wouldn't.

So why not just open the gates to every underpriveledged person on the globe? I'm sure our taxes could be raised to support an extra couple billion.

I'd agree with you Bighead except for one thing. Far too many of those coming here are not pursuing the American dream, they are taking advantage of the system. And it is not our ineffective government who's paying for all those illegals who don't pay taxes. It's not our government who pays for immigrants health care and puts them on welfare just because some illegal hatched a kid here and is being allowed to stay and collect benefits. It's not our government that has to be concerned if they will have a bad encounter with illegals involved in gangs.

It's us. We the citizens of the US have to pay for those babies and their welfare sucking families. We the citizens of the US have to wonder if our kids will be safe from the latino gangs. We the citizens have to pay extra taxes that should be coming out of the paychecks of all those migrants, but it can't because they are paid cash and run like thieves back to Mexico with our cash.

If all of them were insiting on paying their share of taxes, and if all of them were decent law abiding individuals who refused government handouts, then you would have a point. In the 60's my family was often looked down upon by our wealthier neighbors, but I never once thought their better financial status gave me the right to steal from them.

Bighead wrote:

Quote :

Those people are dirt poor and desperate-

The key word in my statement should have been highlighted.

Justoo wrote:

Quote :

Americans (most) who wish to migrate will pay to use legal methods. Most Mexicans pay to use illegal methods.

Both are paying for a service. Americans use a company familiar with Mexican law (and traditions) to stay out of trouble. Those headed north (not all are Mexicans) use a coyote to steer them around trouble (usually).

I realize many coyotes will take partial payment after the fact. Perhaps when (if) we alter the legal process to accommodate our friends to the south and our northern corporations we can provide credit. It could be deducted out of their wages.
By controlling the flow of migration properly, the government could protect the health of the economy to a certain extent. It could also protect the treasury by not inviting those who choose to work the system rather than work.

I never said that I approved of our current immigration laws- or more importantly- how those laws are (not) enforced.

I simply didn't approve of Justoo's high-horse (surely you have a picture for this occasion, Justoo).

I really don't know what the appropriate answer to the immigration situation is. But right now, we have a "worst of both worlds" scenario in which immigration is practically unlimited AND said immigrants are (intentionally?) kept in a permanent (crime-ridden, low-wage, often exploited) underclass due to their 'illegal' status.

I will say that even some faggy euro-countries and Canada have modified their 'anchor-baby' laws so's to avoid some of the problems that we deal with. Not a bad idea IMO.

Quote :

I simply didn't approve of Justoo's high-horse

Care to explain?

Bighead wrote:

said immigrants are (intentionally?) kept in a permanent (crime-ridden, low-wage, often exploited) underclass due to their 'illegal' status.

So they should be rewarded for entering this country illegally? Would you offer the same rewards to all who commit other non-violent crimes?

Justoo wrote:

Quote :

I simply didn't approve of Justoo's high-horse

Care to explain?

I did.

nitromaxx98 wrote:

Bighead wrote:

said immigrants are (intentionally?) kept in a permanent (crime-ridden, low-wage, often exploited) underclass due to their 'illegal' status.

So they should be rewarded for entering this country illegally? Would you offer the same rewards to all who commit other non-violent crimes?

See, this is why we can't have an effective immigration policy in this country- because any policy that's gonna be effective won't likely be reduced to a sound-byte level that the semi-literate masses like Nitro can (or will) understand.

I'll re-state from another angle: If we're gonna have laws against these people coming over here, then we need to ENFORCE them. Otherwise they are effectively made into a permanent underclass with little access to legal protections of any sort and little incentive to abide by the law (since they CAN'T while they're here).

On the other hand, if we're gonna let these people cross the border at will (and we pretty much do allow that), then we ought to make it legal so that these people won't be hiding from the police, engaging in criminal activity (seeings how they're ciminals anyhow... why not?), and undercutting Americans' wages (seeings how they aren't subject to minimum wage laws or a variety of other protections for workers).

I don't have a nice, clear-cut solution. But I do know that our current situation is a 'worst of both worlds' approach. Right now we have unlimited immigration AND a permanent criminal underclass. We could easily eliminate one or the other. Probably not both.

I'm looking for the American dream but i'm sure as hell not going to a 3rd world country like Mexico to find it.

I dunno- I was talking to a guy today who has kin in Mexico, and who goes down there a couple times a year. He mostly stays in a resort town off the Sea of Cortez. He said that if you brought $5000 with you, you could live damn good for a year.

I may have to look into that sometime.

Bighead wrote:

I dunno- I was talking to a guy today who has kin in Mexico, and who goes down there a couple times a year. He mostly stays in a resort town off the Sea of Cortez. He said that if you brought $5000 with you, you could live damn good for a year.

I may have to look into that sometime.

Sí amigos, we work for the gringos for 6 months cash wages, let them pay all our doctor bills with their taxes, and then we come home with their money and live like kings while they are freezing their asses off paying taxes so we can come back when it's spring. And don't forget amigos, if you are caught you just keep saying "no comprende" and act poor and destitute. The stupid gringos are suckers for it.

The guy wasn't mexican. He was a weird old black guy who works for the City. So you're gonna need to modify your impersonation a bit.

Ratzilla wrote:

Bighead wrote:

I dunno- I was talking to a guy today who has kin in Mexico, and who goes down there a couple times a year. He mostly stays in a resort town off the Sea of Cortez. He said that if you brought $5000 with you, you could live damn good for a year.

I may have to look into that sometime.

Sí amigos, we work for the gringos for 6 months cash wages, let them pay all our doctor bills with their taxes, and then we come home with their money and live like kings while they are freezing their asses off paying taxes so we can come back when it's spring. And don't forget amigos, if you are caught you just keep saying "no comprende" and act poor and destitute. The stupid gringos are suckers for it.

When I was in my middle teens I spent 4 summers in Washington State in the Yakima valley. For those who don't know this is one of the most fertile ground in the world. My family HAD apple orchards along with growing some cherries,and pears. Most of the workers were illegal. I can say for those that I worked with had me take them every friday to Western Union to send most of the pay home. Now we were paying them around 350-400 dollars a week. Come the end of the apple harvest they disappeared until next late spring. One day I will have to tell you about the time I got swept up in a ICE raid.

Bighead wrote:

The guy wasn't mexican. He was a weird old black guy who works for the City. So you're gonna need to modify your impersonation a bit.

(makes note) Bighead says my parody does not fit illegal immigrants. You tink meebe my eenglesh too good, no?

Huh?

Point is Bighead that it doesn't matter if your aquaintance is black, Chinese, or a gay redhead from Merry Olde England. I was just using your comment about what he told you to show how those "poor impoverished" Mexicans are taking full advantage of our stupidity. Those poor downtrodden wetbacks I saw working here were driving pretty damn nice vehicles with stereos that could be heard 5 blocks away.

Get momma settin in Texas with her anchor babies collecting welfare while daddy makes some tax free cash over the summer and go home for the winters. Quite the racket those poor destitute Mexicans have going.

You should get in on that. I think I might.

Bighead wrote:

You should get in on that. I think I might.

Just remember, if they decide to charge you with littering in Mexico your sentence might be till their yet unborn great grandsons feel like letting you out of jail.

Same is true in this country. And I'm sure that in Mexico, money talks... just like the good ole' USA.

[quote="Ratzilla"] we work for the gringos [quote]

gringo's are the problem

[quote="Rog"][quote="Ratzilla"] we work for the gringos

Quote :

gringo's are the problem

According to Latins, all white Americans are gringos. So how am I the problem? Granted, I and all my gringo brothers could be sitting on the border with automatic firepower protecting our borders. Or we could be shooting everyone who hires illegals, or signs them up for welfare benefits. But realistically, why do you think I deserve the blame for illegals?

[quote="Ratzilla"][quote="Rog"]

Ratzilla wrote:

we work for the gringos

Quote :

gringo's are the problem

According to Latins, all white Americans are gringos. So how am I the problem? Granted, I and all my gringo brothers could be sitting on the border with automatic firepower protecting our borders. Or we could be shooting everyone who hires illegals, or signs them up for welfare benefits. But realistically, why do you think I deserve the blame for illegals?

All of the worlds ills are caused by white people dontch know Ratz?


Wait....



There's a black man in the White House.



Who we gonna blame now?

[quote="nitromaxx98"][quote="Ratzilla"]

Rog wrote:

Ratzilla wrote:

we work for the gringos

Quote :

gringo's are the problem

According to Latins, all white Americans are gringos. So how am I the problem? Granted, I and all my gringo brothers could be sitting on the border with automatic firepower protecting our borders. Or we could be shooting everyone who hires illegals, or signs them up for welfare benefits. But realistically, why do you think I deserve the blame for illegals?

All of the worlds ills are caused by white people dontch know Ratz?


Wait....



There's a black man in the White House.



Who we gonna blame now?

Still the white man who came before him

What about the white man before him? And before him? And before him?

Well nitro, I suppose this is kind of like all the slaves you and I owned. So tell me nitro, were the daughters of your Mexican field hands any better than your slave women? For some reason I don't remember much about mine.

Ratzilla wrote:

According to Latins, all white Americans are gringos. So how am I the problem? Granted, I and all my gringo brothers could be sitting on the border with automatic firepower protecting our borders. Or we could be shooting everyone who hires illegals, or signs them up for welfare benefits. But realistically, why do you think I deserve the blame for illegals?

nobody said you specifically. just gringo's in general. your fellow americans are selling you down the river to make the bottom line more appealing. sharpie. maker of pens and holder of lucrative government contracts in the tune of millions; has decided to move their manufacturing plant to mexico. they aren't gonna hafta pay decent wages and benefits when they get there. and now 300 americans are unemployed. a gringo did that. with no concern for any of us. no wonder the mexicans run for the border; companies down there don't pay shit.

Rog wrote:

Ratzilla wrote:

According to Latins, all white Americans are gringos. So how am I the problem? Granted, I and all my gringo brothers could be sitting on the border with automatic firepower protecting our borders. Or we could be shooting everyone who hires illegals, or signs them up for welfare benefits. But realistically, why do you think I deserve the blame for illegals?

nobody said you specifically. just gringo's in general. your fellow americans are selling you down the river to make the bottom line more appealing. sharpie. maker of pens and holder of lucrative government contracts in the tune of millions; has decided to move their manufacturing plant to mexico. they aren't gonna hafta pay decent wages and benefits when they get there. and now 300 americans are unemployed. a gringo did that. with no concern for any of us. no wonder the mexicans run for the border; companies down there don't pay shit.

Raising taxes on the employers played no role in the decision. Niether did forcing them to pay COBRA and hope they get it back.

Yup, penalizing American businesses had nothing to do with it.

Rog wrote:

nobody said you specifically. just gringo's in general. your fellow americans are selling you down the river to make the bottom line more appealing. sharpie. maker of pens and holder of lucrative government contracts in the tune of millions; has decided to move their manufacturing plant to mexico. they aren't gonna hafta pay decent wages and benefits when they get there. and now 300 americans are unemployed. a gringo did that. with no concern for any of us. no wonder the mexicans run for the border; companies down there don't pay shit.

I'm well aware for many years that our own business owners with the help of our own politicians have been screwing us over. And while I don't agree completely with Obama on the 90% tax, I do agree that tax havens outside the US must be ended.

My preference would be to give generous tax breaks to all US companies that stay here, do not use tax shelters, and treat workers fairly, and to tax (very painfully) any company that takes it's labor outside the US. I would like to stop all use of overseas tax shelters and see the prosecution of all US companies avoiding taxes by their use.