RC Church tossing out people that helped a 9 year old...

Ok, you're either being deliberately obtuse, or you have a pretty damn flimsy grasp on reality. Maybe both.

I've become bored with this discussion, but I will point out that you're implying that all or most of Amerika's reproductive and child-rearing ills are somehow related to Planned Parenthood, and therefore your (supposedly?) Denmark-style social engineering fantasy (which will somehow be promoted by effectively denying kids birth control) is the solution.

Nevermind the fact that the FedGov has been promoting a DEMONSTRABLY INEFFECTIVE abstinence-only sex-edumucation program for the past 8 years or so. I'm sure that any negative consequences are Planned Parenthood's fault.

Nevermind our culture's deeply-rooted and well-documented sexual dysfunction.

Nevermind that the vast majority of pregnant teens have probably never SEEN a Planned Parenthood clinic (Hell, I'd never seen one 'til I moved to Colorado at the age of 23. But I wasn't pregnant).


Yep, our country's high teen pregnancy rate is CLEARLY Planned Parenthood's fault. Therefore we oughtta follow Ratzilla's half-baked scheme.

Have fun with the last word. I'm done with this discussion until somebody posts something interesting and/or realistic.

Your head isn't only big, it's mighty thick. Where do you get the idea that Denmark reduced pregnancy by denying kids birth control? I said in Denmark kids were not afraid to go to their parents.

And a bunch of stupid government holy rollers telling kids not to screw is the worst way to prevent the pregnancy issue. No kid wants to listen to the government except when the government tells them they can disobey their parents.

The growing gap between parents and their kids being lessened can do far more to stop teen pregnancy than some agency that gives kids the go ahead to defy both their parents, and the law.

Oh, and by the way. I said obviously Planned Parenthood wasn't working considering the US has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the world. I didn't say they were the sole cause. But just as mikecc did when he knew he was wrong you resort to attempting to twist the meaning of my posts.

Go ahead and opt out, but don't hold your breath for a post that agrees with your idea that no parent has a right to know what their junior high age kids are doing.

While I can understand the complexities of the feelings spoken of in that blog, I'm still mystified by one thing. Why are all these women talking about how abortion is so much easier on them mentally than giving one up for adoption rather than saying if you use birth control you won't have to make "the choice"?

I mean come on, there's the pill, condoms, spermicides, IUD's, and even surguries for both women and men to prevent pregnancy. So why this damn battle over abortion? It seems to me that it's become a situation of "We're gonna have abortions cause it's our choice and Nah Nah Nah to anyone who doesn't like it".

Ratzilla wrote:

While I can understand the complexities of the feelings spoken of in that blog, I'm still mystified by one thing. Why are all these women talking about how abortion is so much easier on them mentally than giving one up for adoption rather than saying if you use birth control you won't have to make "the choice"?

I know it's pretty common on this board, but not everybody likes to state the obvious as if it's a revelation.

Quote :

We're gonna have abortions cause it's our choice and Nah Nah Nah to anyone who doesn't like it".

I reckon that's good enough for me. If I was female, I wouldn't be nearly so polite about it.

But I can see how it would burn your ass if you have control issues.

No Bighead, It's not I who have the control issue. It's women, and those of you who support this. And I wouldn't state the obvious if it appeared they could see it for themselves. There are numerous contraception choices these days that are far more sensible than abortion or adoption. But they and you refuse to see the simplicity of the solution due to a stubborn insistence to be defiant. All you and they see is that anyone who doesn't like abortion is some moralist (or controlling man) trying to tell them what to do.

So go right ahead and support pure stupidity. It only shows your true intelligence level is far below the level of your ego.

So tell me again exactly why you're more qualified to decide what's right/wrong/good/bad than the woman who will have to carry the fetus around and pop it out her vagina and raise the kid or give it up?

I just can't wrap my mind around WHY it's any of your business.

Ratzilla wrote:

While I can understand the complexities of the feelings spoken of in that blog, I'm still mystified by one thing. Why are all these women talking about how abortion is so much easier on them mentally than giving one up for adoption

This one is a no brainer as to why it is harder to give a child up for adoption, the woman has carried that child for nine months. It is the same as carrying a child for nine months and then losing the baby during childbirth. There is a giagantic emotional attachment to that child. I'm not even female and I can figure that out Captain Obivious!!

Now in the other scenario, the biggest percentage of abortions occur within the first trimester according to all of the statistics I've ever read, there isn't as big of a emotional attachment issue as carrying a child to term. But I'm sure there are emotional issues involved with making that decision as well, and those who choose either option are susceptable to them.

Face it Ratz, you are a guy and you will never understand the emotional side of this issue as far as from the woman's perspective ...... and it should be an issue that is decided by women, not by men who want absolute power over women and their bodies and reproductive tracts.

Ratzilla wrote:

There are numerous contraception choices these days that are far more sensible than abortion or adoption. But they and you refuse to see the simplicity of the solution due to a stubborn insistence to be defiant.

Bighead wrote:

So tell me again exactly why you're more qualified to decide what's right/wrong/good/bad than the woman who will have to carry the fetus around and pop it out her vagina and raise the kid or give it up?

See, you're doing it again. Defying pure logic. I rest my case.

slider wrote:

Ratzilla wrote:

While I can understand the complexities of the feelings spoken of in that blog, I'm still mystified by one thing. Why are all these women talking about how abortion is so much easier on them mentally than giving one up for adoption rather than saying if you use birth control you won't have to make "the choice"?

This one is a no brainer as to why it is harder to give a child up for adoption, the woman has carried that child for nine months. It is the same as carrying a child for nine months and then losing the baby during childbirth. There is a giagantic emotional attachment to that child. I'm not even female and I can figure that out Captain Obivious!!

Damn shame you couldn't post my entire comment. But I finished your quote to show all of my original post and highlighted what you left out bright red since I'm "sure" you don't want to mislead anyone as to what I said. You surely wouldn't want anyone to think I said things differently than I posted them would you now slider?

Ok Bighead, slider, the ball is in your court. I don't need to hear "It's a womans choice" for the 500th time. Tell me why you think it's a smarter choice to choose abortion over birth control.

Honestly guys, I don't give a crap who's friggin choice it is. The simple fact is that the third and most logical, and least emotionally painfull choice is being ignored. I read and listen to comment after comment by women patting each other on the backs about how it's their "choice" to have an abortion, yet I never hear one say "Hey sis, why not use the pill or other birth control instead?".

And Bighead, you for one surprise me. Mr freedom you are when it comes to the rights of women, kids, the accused, etc., yet you think I don't even have a right to an opinion just because women don't want me to. You're a strange one for sure.

slider wrote:

you are a guy and you will never understand the emotional side of this issue as far as from the woman's perspective

That's where you're wrong, motherfucker.

I don't tel this to many people, but you've struck a nerve here.

When I was young, about 23, I lived in Shawnee, close to one of the infamous clinics in this state. I was datiing a woman who forgot her pill once and got pregnant. We talked for days about what to do. I offered to marry her. I offered to take the baby myself and become a single parent with no obligation on her part. I was even cool with adoption. Anything but killing the baby. She said she understood and would let me know what she wanted to do the next day. When I got home from work the next day, she called and told me that she had had an abortion that morning. Her roommate drove her to the clinic and took her home.

I was devastated. The pain was unbearable. The relationship was over. I retreated into drugs and alcohol for about three months. I even went so far as to have a vasectomy (which I later had successfully reversed, thanks to Dr. Kevin McDonald) to make sure it never happened again. I finally told myself that nothing was going to change what happened, but I still find myself to this day wondering what he or she would be doing right now.

Killing babies isn't cool period.I don't care who's doing it.But it happens,babies die and it sucks.Maybe if there weren't abortions except for rape or incest, chicks would take their pills!!!!
And I am not on either side of the fight,I just know killing babies is wrong

Quote :

killing babies is wrong

Really goin' out on a limb there, Wilky.

Ratzilla wrote:

See, you're doing it again. Defying pure logic. I rest my case.

Fuckin' Christ... I had successfully extracted myself from this 'debate'. Why the hell couldn't I have left it at that?

I really wish you wouldn't use the L-word so capriciously. You're smarter than that. Have a quick read here and hopefully you'll see why both invocations of the L-word fall woefully short.

This isn't JUST idle bitching. Part of the problem here is that we're talking right past each other. I'm just as guilty- but at least I ain't callin' it 'logic' . We can't even agree on what we're arguing about. So I'd suggest that we clear that up before going any further.

Basically, I've been making the case that since a woman has a MUCH bigger stake in the matter (including but not limited to the fact that the fetus is essentially PART of her own body), then she, as an individual, is the best equipped and has more natural right than anybody else to make any decision about aborting the little bastard. This is consistent with my fetish for individual rights. I haven't commented much about any moral (in a very loose sense) qualms that I have with abortion- because they have little bearing on my opinion of WHO ought to be making the choice.

Can you narrow down your position in this discussion to a similarly concise statement of a couple or three sentences? 'Cause I've kinda lost track of what we're arguing about.

Do you have any opinion regarding the legality of abortion, and who oughtta be making that decision? Or are you just commenting on the issue without taking a firm legal/political stance?

I'll postpone replying to your next post as I think we ought to clear this up if we mean to have any sort of productive discussion.

I thought I was being plenty clear. I "personally" only agree with abortion out of real need such as medical emergency, rape, serious deformity, etc.

I would say that the fight over abortion is about control in many cases by both sides. The church moralists don't want it for any reason and I find their side of the argument void because it's based on religion, not reality.

I do not think most pro-abortion women want it out of real need because they almost never are heard to promote contraception first. It's always just "It's the womans body" crap over and over. In plain words abortion has just become another damn "me, me I want it this way" issue and both sides piss me off.

I do not ever believe a minor should have an abortion without parental consent unless there is immediate threat to the girls health. That should be law. If they are raped or molested, the law should know. If a girl thinks she's big enough to screw around she is big enough to inform her parents she got pregnant.

And as already said, if I always heard pro-abortionists promoting contraception in their speeches I'd have much less problem with them. I think non emergent abortion should be strictly limited to the earliest stages when there is no chance the fetus can feel or sense anything. I'm perfectly fine with the morning after pill in cases where contraception is forgotten or failed.

As to the case EP presented us with, I think she was a bitch. Women who just refer to men as being "only the sperm donor" piss me off. So why'd she spread her damn legs for him if that's all the more important she thinks he is?

Quote :

And the commissioner - at the behest of political actors - decided to deny nonprescription access to women 16 and younger before FDA scientific review staff had completed their reviews," Korman wrote.

"Women" 16 and younger????

Yeah slickjay, that was clear as mud too. Might help if you'd elaborate as to what or who.

The Other One wrote:

slider wrote:

you are a guy and you will never understand the emotional side of this issue as far as from the woman's perspective

That's where you're wrong, motherfucker.

I don't tel this to many people, but you've struck a nerve here.

When I was young, about 23, I lived in Shawnee, close to one of the infamous clinics in this state. I was datiing a woman who forgot her pill once and got pregnant. We talked for days about what to do. I offered to marry her. I offered to take the baby myself and become a single parent with no obligation on her part. I was even cool with adoption. Anything but killing the baby. She said she understood and would let me know what she wanted to do the next day. When I got home from work the next day, she called and told me that she had had an abortion that morning. Her roommate drove her to the clinic and took her home.

I was devastated. The pain was unbearable. The relationship was over. I retreated into drugs and alcohol for about three months. I even went so far as to have a vasectomy (which I later had successfully reversed, thanks to Dr. Kevin McDonald) to make sure it never happened again. I finally told myself that nothing was going to change what happened, but I still find myself to this day wondering what he or she would be doing right now.

I've been mulling this post over for a while and am going to address this response. Do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on? Do you actually think you are the only one who has had the rug pulled out from under you with a girlfriend or wife that has gone behind your back and the person who is most affected by a pregnancy taken charge of their body and terminated a pregnancy. What makes you think you should have had some overpowering right to say she couldn't have say over whether she terminated a pregnancy. Last time I checked, you only provided a few swimmers to the process.

I have been in the same situation and yes it is an emotional roller coaster, but it is absolutely her right to choose what goes on within her body period. I have also been on the emotional roller coaster of losing a child when it was decided to have the baby. I've watched two of my best friends go through the agony of losing three children within hours of childbirth, yet watched them triumph when things went right and they didn't lose the two boys they have today.

I have watched the pain on the faces of my own children as they have suffereed through multiple miscarriages. They never gave up and now I have two of the most beautiful grandchildren i the world.

My point is still this, as a man you will never ever comprehend what it is like for a woman to go through the process of a pregnancy, terminating one or losing one to any number of reasons. You can fool yourself into believing you know, but it will never happen to you so it is a moot point for you to argue otherwise.

The fact you turned to alcohol and drugs is only you showing your own weaknesses and only a selfish and weak reaction what she did, and yes she was justified in her decision. It is her right to decide what was going on inside her own body, not yours or anyoe elses.

Back to lurking in the shadows.

Ratzilla wrote:

I thought I was being plenty clear. I "personally" only agree with abortion out of real need such as medical emergency, rape, serious deformity, etc.

I would say that the fight over abortion is about control in many cases by both sides. The church moralists don't want it for any reason and I find their side of the argument void because it's based on religion, not reality.

I do not think most pro-abortion women want it out of real need because they almost never are heard to promote contraception first. It's always just "It's the womans body" crap over and over. In plain words abortion has just become another damn "me, me I want it this way" issue and both sides piss me off.

I do not ever believe a minor should have an abortion without parental consent unless there is immediate threat to the girls health. That should be law. If they are raped or molested, the law should know. If a girl thinks she's big enough to screw around she is big enough to inform her parents she got pregnant.

And as already said, if I always heard pro-abortionists promoting contraception in their speeches I'd have much less problem with them. I think non emergent abortion should be strictly limited to the earliest stages when there is no chance the fetus can feel or sense anything. I'm perfectly fine with the morning after pill in cases where contraception is forgotten or failed.

As to the case EP presented us with, I think she was a bitch. Women who just refer to men as being "only the sperm donor" piss me off. So why'd she spread her damn legs for him if that's all the more important she thinks he is?

To be honest with you, Ratzilla- I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Thought maybe your argument was kinda abstract... or hypothetical or something. 'Cause you've never struck me as one of our self-appointed moral superiors. Looks like I was wrong, though.

You have lots of opinions as to when and how women should or should not have abortions (and I don't necessarily disagree with you, hypothetically)... but you have yet to explain why YOU are more qualified to make the decision than the woman who has to live with it. You have yet to explain why your own petty control issues are more important than a woman's individual rights.

Did EP contribute anything more to that pregnancy than sperm?

Ratzilla wrote:

Ok Bighead, slider, the ball is in your court. I don't need to hear "It's a womans choice" for the 500th time. Tell me why you think it's a smarter choice to choose abortion over birth control.

I never said it WAS a smart choice. You're free to do LOTS of things in life that are not smart choices... that's what freedom is about.

I'd much rather see unwanted pregnancies avoided in the first place than have them aborted (though, with your stance on birth control for minors, you apparently think that control is more important than preventing unwanted pregnancy). And I don't really disagree with your moral admonishment that these gals shouldn't have been fucking or should have used birth control. But the fact is that they DID fuck... or they DIDN'T use birth control... or the birth control didn't work. The question at hand isn't about what they SHOULD have done or what SHOULD have worked- the question at hand is what should or should not be legal once those points are moot.

Quote :

Honestly guys, I don't give a crap who's friggin choice it is. The simple fact is that the third and most logical, and least emotionally painfull choice is being ignored. I read and listen to comment after comment by women patting each other on the backs about how it's their "choice" to have an abortion, yet I never hear one say "Hey sis, why not use the pill or other birth control instead?".

Sure- fine. Attention women everywhere! Captain Obvious Says: USE THE PILL! IT BEATS THE HELL OUTTA ABORTION!

There... feel better now? Our disagreement still hasn't been resolved. Women will still have abortions. You will still have control issues. Did anything change?

Quote :

And Bighead, you for one surprise me. Mr freedom you are when it comes to the rights of women, kids, the accused, etc., yet you think I don't even have a right to an opinion just because women don't want me to. You're a strange one for sure.

Ratzilla- you surprise me. You've never impressed me before as a whiner.

You have every right to your opinion- I've never suggested otherwise. And I have every right to express my opinion... and to speculate about the apparent control issues that underlie yours.

Quote :

But they and you refuse to see the simplicity of the solution due to a stubborn insistence to be defiant. All you and they see is that anyone who doesn't like abortion is some moralist (or controlling man) trying to tell them what to do.

Quote :

It's always just "It's the womans body" crap over and over. In plain words abortion has just become another damn "me, me I want it this way" issue and both sides piss me off.

Quote :

It seems to me that it's become a situation of "We're gonna have abortions cause it's our choice and Nah Nah Nah to anyone who doesn't like it".

Quote :

As to the case EP presented us with, I think she was a bitch. Women who just refer to men as being "only the sperm donor" piss me off. So why'd she spread her damn legs for him if that's all the more important she thinks he is?

Ratzilla, I've collected a few quotes from you that I think clearly show the crux of your stance on this issue. You feel that women who assert their right to control their own bodies are devaluing men- and you want to control that.

Sorry to break it to you... but NATURE has devalued men. You're the one who was promoting some ill-defined notion of "nature's standards" earlier. Well, by "nature's standards", when it comes to reproduction, you're nothing more than a sperm donor (well, you'd like to be). To produce offspring, a woman has no need of you otherwise.

Sorry if that makes you feel small... but it's a simple fact. Women have VASTLY more at stake, personally, when it comes to pregnancy than men do... and therefore I reckon that they should have vastly more say in the matter.

Quote :

"stubborn"
"defiant"
"'woman's-body' crap"
"me- me- I want it this way"
"bitch"
"...piss me off"
"spread her damn legs"
"It's our choice and nah nah nah"

These are the words that you use to describe women mean to control their own bodies. I think this shows not only some obvious control issues- but outright contempt for women. From whence does this stem? Do you feel undervalued? Don't get laid enough? Do you think that something about sex is inherently bad... and blame women for it? (seems to me that you do... and you do)

I'll tell you this much: Your contempt, control issues, and womens' (percieved) attitudes toward you are a self-feeding cycle. If you wonder why aren't valued and ain't gettin' laid... look in the mirror.


And since you've yet to answer the question, I'll repeat it again:

Bighead wrote:

So tell me again exactly why you're more qualified to decide what's right/wrong/good/bad than the woman who will have to carry the fetus around and pop it out her vagina and raise the kid or give it up?

I'm the whiner? ROTFLMAO!!!!! Let's refresh everyone's memory

I say I have a right to my "opinions" and that parents have the right to be in charge of their offspring just as every parent has been since man's earliest ancestors first climbed out of the primordial ooze. If an underage kid is caught drinking, using drugs, or any number of things considered potentially dangerous their parents are notified in most cases, yet you don't think risking STD's, pregnancy, or even having an abortion is something a parent has a right to know about. Sorry man, but that's screwed up.

And all I get from you over and over and over and over is "Rat's a control freak." It's my opinions Bighead, which I have a Constitutionally protected right to state. And I don't need your permission, nor womens to state them. Understand that? It appears to me that you and the women you speak for are the insecure control freaks since I'm not even supposed to state my thoughts.

And here's one to chew on Bighead. Since you seem to think having an opinion that differs from who I speak of means I'm trying to control them then you must be the biggest control freak on these boards because you don't think anyone but you is ever right.

very well stated rat !!!

Ratzilla wrote:

I'm the whiner? ROTFLMAO!!!!! Let's refresh everyone's memory

I say I have a right to my "opinions" and that parents have the right to be in charge of their offspring just as every parent has been since man's earliest ancestors first climbed out of the primordial ooze. If an underage kid is caught drinking, using drugs, or any number of things considered potentially dangerous their parents are notified in most cases, yet you don't think risking STD's, pregnancy, or even having an abortion is something a parent has a right to know about. Sorry man, but that's screwed up.

I think it's screwed up that you apparently WANT to see kids get pregnant. 'Cause we both know that that'll be the end result of what you advocate.

Quote :

And all I get from you over and over and over and over is "Rat's a control freak." It's my opinions Bighead, which I have a Constitutionally protected right to state. And I don't need your permission, nor womens to state them. Understand that? It appears to me that you and the women you speak for are the insecure control freaks since I'm not even supposed to state my thoughts.

Point out exactly where I've tried to shut you up. I've done no such thing- you've every right to your opinion... baseless as it might be.

And I have every right to speculate about WHY you'd come to such an opinion.

Quote :

And here's one to chew on Bighead. Since you seem to think having an opinion that differs from who I speak of means I'm trying to control them then you must be the biggest control freak on these boards because you don't think anyone but you is ever right.

Go ahead... change the subject. I suppose it's easier than answering my simple question.

Again:

Bighead wrote:

So tell me again exactly why you're more qualified to decide what's right/wrong/good/bad than the woman who will have to carry the fetus around and pop it out her vagina and raise the kid or give it up?

I just can't wrap my mind around WHY it's any of your business.

Is it really THAT hard to answer?

I know what your opinion is... and you might be surprised at how much we agree on. But what I don't understand is why you reckon that your opinion is more important than that of the woman in question.

My opinion is important to me, and the opinion of women wanting an abortion is important to them. So what else you want to know?

I want to know if you reckon that your opinion ought to be law.

I never said abortion should be outlawed. I said I don't agree with women who use it as a birth control tool, and I said it was stupid to go through an abortion rather than try to prevent that pregnancy.

I said the government has two faced rules when it comes to minors and I say that parents have the right to know if their kids are seeking birth control or abortions. The simple fact the US has the worlds highest teen pregnancy rate is proof that keeping it secret from mom and dad doesn't prevent it, it only encourages promiscuity.

So the answers are that I think some women are fucking stupid about abortion. What the laws should be are not something I've not put much thought to, nor does it matter. As I said I have the right to my opinion and that opinion is just as valuable as anyone elses. I hear women all the time talking about how they think men should behave in every aspect of their lives. Are the rules different just because I'm a man? Is this like how black men can call each other N-i-g-g-e-r, but I can't? Censoring that word now huh?

As to parental notification of minors seeking abortions, you damn right I think that needs to be the law. Now go find me some parents that say they don't want to know if their underage daughter gets an abortion and you'll know why she'got it.

Oh, and as to this.....

Ratzilla wrote:

And here's one to chew on Bighead. Since you seem to think having an opinion that differs from who I speak of means I'm trying to control them then you must be the biggest control freak on these boards because you don't think anyone but you is ever right.

Bighead wrote:

Go ahead... change the subject. I suppose it's easier than answering my simple question.

I'm not changing the subject. You're obsessed with pointing out how you think I'm a control freak, and I'm pointing out with your posting history that it's the pot calling the kettle black.

Well godamn it Ratzilla- this is what a asket you about several posts ago. If you don't reckon that abortion ought to be illegal, then we really don't disagree all that much.

I only personally know one gal (former Haycite) who has had multiple abortions apparently for the purposes of birth control. And I think she's a dirty whore (it's as much a statement of fact as a characterization). I don't think we'd disagree here.

I simply don't reckon that this dirty whore's actions should be used to justify telling women what they may or may not do with their own body.

And, yeah- we'll just have do agree to disagree about minors getting birth control and/or abortions. It comes down priorities. I want to prevent teen pregnancy. You want teens to be controlled.

I want to prevent teen pregnancy also. And I pointed out that nations like Denmark and The Netherlands have far lower teen pregnancy rates not because they don't have sex, but because their society decided it was better to turn the kids towards their parents rather than away.

And if parents were not meant to be in control of their offspring we'd all hatch from eggs fully equipped to sustain ourselves. The parent is the teacher and guardian until that offspring can survive on it's own. That is natures way.

This country ain't Denmark and never will be. My stance on the issue is purely pragmatic- neither is a 'good' solution.

There you go with that 'nature' thing again- do you have any idea how selective you're being with this 'standard' of yours? 'Cause if "nature" had HER way, then every 13-year-old girl WOULD be pregnant.

Still going...

I don't disagree with your comment on nature. An old woman who was born in the 1800's once told me that when a girl started getting "the itch" they married her off to a man who could support her so she wouldn't get pregnant by some boy who couldn't. It was that way for centuries. If you look at nature it was probably meant to be that way. But those same feminists who favor abortion and kids having sex didn't like it that way.

so now we're back to bitching about the feminists.

It always comes full circle for you, huh?

Bighead wrote:

so now we're back to bitching about the feminists.

It always comes full circle for you, huh?

Only stating the truth Bighead. Religion, greed, and feminism are the three things that messed this nation up most.

Well, at least we agree on the religion thing. Sortof.

But to say that this nation has been 'messed up' implies that at some point it wasn't 'messed up'. And I'm not convinced that that was ever the case.

Oh I don't disagree there either. There's always been things screwed up. But Religion has been overbearing and intolerant, greed has gotten us into alot of our problems both domestically and globally, and radical feminism caused societal divisions that have led us to things such as the breakdown of the family unit, and all this politically correct crap we have to deal with.

I don't find religion in itself destructive, nor wanting money, nor rights for women. But you know as well as I do that the radicals in the bunch are the ones who seem to get their voices heard, and that control you have spoken so much of has no better examples than religious extremists, the excessively greedy, and the radical feminist.