YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK

I heard this on CNN and I am just mad as a hornet about this. Corporate america is gong to continue to screw us over and yet they take our money from the bailout and do this.....

A NEW CORPORATE JET???? !!! #$%$##^&^$#$ $50,000,000.00 ????

theives... all theives.....

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/26/news/companies/citigroup_plane.reut/index.htm?postversion=2009012615

yep

At least they are selling two older jets estimated to be worth more than the new one, but yeah, it still seems rotten. They should have already sold the older jets if they were needing money so bad. We just got hosed and the so called conservative party was in power.

Ratzilla wrote:

At least they are selling two older jets estimated to be worth more than the new one, but yeah, it still seems rotten. They should have already sold the older jets if they were needing money so bad. We just got hosed and the so called conservative party was in power.

yeah that makes it all better.............. not !!!

LukeTHr wrote:

I heard this on CNN and I am just mad as a hornet about this. Corporate america is gong to continue to screw us over and yet they take our money from the bailout and do this.....

A NEW CORPORATE JET???? !!! #$%$##^&^$#$ $50,000,000.00 ????

theives... all theives.....

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/26/news/companies/citigroup_plane.reut/index.htm?postversion=2009012615

Did you seriously not see this coming?

It really doesn't surprise me,,,,, disgusts me more than anything. I'm telling ya, it's time for the peasants to get their pitchforks, torches, tar & feathers and teach these sons- a -bitches this shit ain't gonna be tolerated anymore.

Yeah baby-count me in!!
Fire,fire!!!!

Ron Paul was the answer. Yep, I'm gonna keep rubbing it in. He wasn't the conservative republican posterboy because he's not rabidly against weed, he doesn't like fighting other countries wars, he doesn't praise god in every paragraph, and worst of all he believes in personal freedom. But he's more of a fiscal conservative than any of those assclowns that pin the conservative label on themselves.

All conservative means in politics nowdays is someone who wants to shove their holier than thou morality down everyones throats. You better not think those naughty thoughts or roll up a joint, but you can rip off your public for billions and still be a good flag waving republican.

And still the 8th street bridge is closed....last I heard the county is just going to overlay the bridge,...brilliant.

alg8tr wrote:

And still the 8th street bridge is closed....last I heard the county is just going to overlay the bridge,...brilliant.

true, but hays is going to have a sports complex. the sales tax goes into effect soon ya know.... 7.55% in most of hays and 8.03% at home depot and ihop.... ya get to pay extra tax at those places so that extra money can go back to cover the costs of the development there..... BOHICA !!!!!

Kansas has a 5.3% state sales tax. More than 700 jurisdictions within the state (cities, counties, and special districts) may impose additional taxes. For example, in the capital city of Topeka, retailers must collect 5.3% for the state, 1.15% for Shawnee County, and 1% for the city, for a total rate of 7.45%. As of February 2007, the highest rate was 8.65%, in the Roeland Park Transportation District.

Will Hays try to be number one?

Hays does not want to be number one. In fact the sports complex can not be blamed on the politicians in this town. They did not propose this facility. A group of citizens did that. The citizens then passed around a petition and got enough signatures to force the commissioners to place it on the ballot. Then the citizens passed it by voting for it.

Maybe I can pass around a petition making it a capital crime to make your living in the American Judicial System.

LukeTHr wrote:

alg8tr wrote:

And still the 8th street bridge is closed....last I heard the county is just going to overlay the bridge,...brilliant.

true, but hays is going to have a sports complex. the sales tax goes into effect soon ya know.... 7.55% in most of hays and 8.03% at home depot and ihop.... ya get to pay extra tax at those places so that extra money can go back to cover the costs of the development there..... BOHICA !!!!!

Can't compare the two, the bridge is a county thing which doesn't collect sales tax, while the complex is a city thing that collects sales tax.

I hate taxes as much as the next person (okay, probably not as much as most the people on this board) but the argument that the money should be spent somewhere else bugs me. The sports complex tax isn't taking current monies away from the city and county it is a new tax and thus new money.

The city and county sit on their ass and wont do anything to fix things because they don't want to be the bad guys to raise taxes. Similar to how the complex funding was passed, if the citizens really want streets fixed, they can start a petition and get a sales tax passed to get them fixed.

true lilchef, but I think it is a very bad time to be continuing with the sports complex considering the current economic conditions. The tax numbers projected were based on a much stronger economy. I think it would be wise to re-visit that project and use more current revenue numbers to better reflect the current state of finances. It may not look as enticing as it did previously. Even FHSU has put their soccer plans on hold. No the complex may not be taking away from other monies, but it is putting a heavier financial burden on the average citizen in a time of economic crisis.

I wouldn't say the county sits and does nothing so as to not raise taxes. Our society has become like a spoiled child that doesn't know when to quit spending on excesses. We have reached a breaking point where some tough decisions are going to have to be made. The money well is drying up and it just plain and simple isn't there to spend anymore.

oh , and a recent update on sales tax puts the Leawood TDD's at drumroll please.........

9.05%

oh, I need to corrct the Hays TDD tax. it is 8.3%

LukeTHr wrote:

true lilchef, but I think it is a very bad time to be continuing with the sports complex considering the current economic conditions. The tax numbers projected were based on a much stronger economy. I think it would be wise to re-visit that project and use more current revenue numbers to better reflect the current state of finances. It may not look as enticing as it did previously. Even FHSU has put their soccer plans on hold. No the complex may not be taking away from other monies, but it is putting a heavier financial burden on the average citizen in a time of economic crisis.

I wouldn't say the county sits and does nothing so as to not raise taxes. Our society has become like a spoiled child that doesn't know when to quit spending on excesses. We have reached a breaking point where some tough decisions are going to have to be made. The money well is drying up and it just plain and simple isn't there to spend anymore.

Sales (and thus sales tax revenue) isn't down in Hays, at least it wasn't in the fourth quarter of '08 when the economy went to hell. Walmart had one of their best Christmas season's ever and reported that even though traffic count is down, total sales are up. Hays and Western Kansas have been somewhat sheltered by the economic problems. Now will we be able to maintain? Who knows, but I don't see this as spending in excess, I see it as an investment in the infrastructure of Hays and our youth (but we don't really want to start this debate again). If the city isn't going to invest in these things, I'm glad the citizens stood up and did. It would be interesting to see if some of the commissioners would get reelected, but only if someone would run against them. Last I heard, they only have 3 running for the 3 open spots (and its just a retread with Wasinger, Lytton and Henry Schwaller - Hickman hasn't said) deadline is noon today.


The FHSU soccer program was put on hold because the Governor is making all regent university's cut their budget by 7%, basically she is cutting government funding for universities. And of course some of it has to do with the economy (less returns on investments that the state uses/relies on), some of it has been several years coming in the state has had budget shortfalls for years, even when the economy was "stable".

sales may have been ok in the last quarter but I think those numebers are going to decline. Walmart may continue to do ok because they carry things that people need to survive. The places that are going to take a huge hit are car dealers, motorcycle/off-road sports dealers, stereo shops and probably a lot of the specialty shops as well as jewelry and luxury items. This is my viewpoint and hopefully I will be wrong, but I see mill levies getting increased thru the cities and school districts, city service fees being increased and I think it may put a huge crunch on what people are willing to spend in non-essential areas.

lilchefed wrote:

Sales (and thus sales tax revenue) isn't down in Hays, at least it wasn't in the fourth quarter of '08 when the economy went to hell. Walmart had one of their best Christmas season's ever and reported that even though traffic count is down, total sales are up.

Revenues were up at WalMart* because it's just about the only damn place to shop in Hays. There the specialty stores but for an all around store they have the Monopoly in Hays.

Since FHSU isn't building their part of the Complex anytime in the foreseeable future, it should be obvious to the City Commisioners that the entire Project should be put on hold until the time comes Ed does put that little pet project back on the "to do list" at FHSU.

Isn't going to do much good to build the City's part then have to make all of those out of town teams, coaches and parents wade through all of the construction equipment and storage trailers when FHSU green lights the construction of their part of the Complex some years down the road to hold these Mega-Million dollars worth of Soccer Tournaments that were promsed by the Soccer Coalition.

Will there be any way to recind the sales tax increase?

would probably require a petition to have it put back on the ballot

mikecc wrote:

Will there be any way to recind the sales tax increase?

You would have to contest the election and win or put it on the April ballet. Really the city can't stop this project. It can delay the project until all the cash has been received and can delay the project (by not having the proper paper work filed which would delay when the tax would go into effect). But I believe the only way to stop the project would be to put it to a vote, but I don't even see how they could do that. Wouldn't that somewhat undermine the voting process?

lilchefed wrote:

mikecc wrote:

Will there be any way to recind the sales tax increase?

You would have to contest the election and win or put it on the April ballet. Really the city can't stop this project. It can delay the project until all the cash has been received and can delay the project (by not having the proper paper work filed which would delay when the tax would go into effect). But I believe the only way to stop the project would be to put it to a vote, but I don't even see how they could do that. Wouldn't that somewhat undermine the voting process?

I don't think it would be undermining the voting process, but would be more along the lines of the voters showing fiscal wisdom.

LukeTHr wrote:

lilchefed wrote:

mikecc wrote:

Will there be any way to recind the sales tax increase?

You would have to contest the election and win or put it on the April ballet. Really the city can't stop this project. It can delay the project until all the cash has been received and can delay the project (by not having the proper paper work filed which would delay when the tax would go into effect). But I believe the only way to stop the project would be to put it to a vote, but I don't even see how they could do that. Wouldn't that somewhat undermine the voting process?

I don't think it would be undermining the voting process, but would be more along the lines of the voters showing fiscal wisdom.

Take out the economic stuff, if the voters pass something, then the opposition fights it and gets it back on the ballet and its overturned, couldn't the original group get it back on there, and this could go on and on, and thus somewhat undermining the process.

As for the fiscal wisdom, this is debatable, which I disagree with. I guess regardless of how you feel it is someone's wisdom and who says which is right?

The City Commission could table the project and push back the start date on th collection of the sales tax back without having to put it on the ballot. There have been other City and County projects as well in the past that have been tabled until Federeal or State Grant monies or Federal or State Funding have become available before. If they wait for State Grant money it'll be a long wait, that is why Hammond has pushed it back until the State Budget crunch os over.

slider wrote:

The City Commission could table the project and push back the start date on th collection of the sales tax back without having to put it on the ballot. There have been other City and County projects as well in the past that have been tabled until Federeal or State Grant monies or Federal or State Funding have become available before. If they wait for State Grant money it'll be a long wait, that is why Hammond has pushed it back until the State Budget crunch os over.

This isn't a "city" project in that it wasn't something they budgeted for and it was done by the voters. They can delay it by not building until all money is collected (4 years worth of sales tax, whatever that amount may be) or intentionally not submit the paper work for the tax. I would assume the other city projects weren't citizen pushed through and this has nothing to do with Federal or State Grant monies, this relies on the State Budget zero.

Hammond pulled back, because he can't hire his coaches and have money for them to recruit, his stadium is coming from private funding and again has nothing to do with the state (only the coaches/program portion does). Why build a stadium and have it sit empty, so until he can hire the coaches and actually start the team, then he will move forward on the stadium. It will be interesting to see how he will come up with the funds for 2 head coaches and a couple of assistants, plus the travel, etc. etc. But he has stated several times that the stadium itself is being funded by private funds.

lilchefed wrote:

I hate taxes as much as the next person (okay, probably not as much as most the people on this board) but the argument that the money should be spent somewhere else bugs me.

I hate the fact that about half our income goes to pay some kind of tax or license. It doesn't bug me that money will be spent on what it was voted to go for, but it does bug me that those who will never use the place have to help pay for it. And it bugs me that the local residents only seem to care about sports or a new place to have dinner after the game.

lilchefed wrote:

The sports complex tax isn't taking current monies away from the city and county it is a new tax and thus new money.

Yeah, new money out of my pocket. I already get stuck with outrageous taxes on my cigarettes to pay for the kids of some illegals or others who don't have health insurance.

Why not put a nice fat tax on sporting goods, sporting event tickets, sports concessions, sports souvenirs, sport bars, or anything else that bases it's income from sports so that those who will use it most will pay the most. And what about the roads going to the place? Whose tax dollars will be paying for all the road upkeep after all that new traffic starts?

Ratzilla wrote:

lilchefed wrote:

I hate taxes as much as the next person (okay, probably not as much as most the people on this board) but the argument that the money should be spent somewhere else bugs me.

I hate the fact that about half our income goes to pay some kind of tax or license. It doesn't bug me that money will be spent on what it was voted to go for, but it does bug me that those who will never use the place have to help pay for it. And it bugs me that the local residents only seem to care about sports or a new place to have dinner after the game.

lilchefed wrote:

The sports complex tax isn't taking current monies away from the city and county it is a new tax and thus new money.

Yeah, new money out of my pocket. I already get stuck with outrageous taxes on my cigarettes to pay for the kids of some illegals or others who don't have health insurance.

Why not put a nice fat tax on sporting goods, sporting event tickets, sports concessions, sports souvenirs, sport bars, or anything else that bases it's income from sports so that those who will use it most will pay the most. And what about the roads going to the place? Whose tax dollars will be paying for all the road upkeep after all that new traffic starts?

Agree, but there are taxes that go to items that you use that I probably don't. The example I like to use is the city running a compost site, I don't use it, but the city spends money on it so that others can. In the same vein, the city helps fund the library, but there are several people in the city who don't use it. Hell, I can rent video games there, who buys these games? I assume some comes from their operations, which is from the city, so you help my kid play wii games and I can save my money. Thanks by the way.

I hope the compost pile doesn't cost what the sports complex does. But then again, if HFD keeps having to run out there to put fires out it might get expensive.

Yeah, I know how things work, but this isn't a small fraction of an existing tax paying for something. This is an added tax.

Oh, and on the subject of street repairs. How many holes could be repaired for what it cost to put trees and flowers along with water lines for them on Vine Street? Yeah, we sure needed them.

Back to the original subject, I heard on HLN that the jet was actually ordered 2 years ago. They have since canceled the order.

I wonder how many people got put out of work for the cancellation?

LukeTHr wrote:

alg8tr wrote:

And still the 8th street bridge is closed....last I heard the county is just going to overlay the bridge,...brilliant.

true, but hays is going to have a sports complex. the sales tax goes into effect soon ya know.... 7.55% in most of hays and 8.03% at home depot and ihop.... ya get to pay extra tax at those places so that extra money can go back to cover the costs of the development there..... BOHICA !!!!!

Wont be any sales tax if they close this one down!!!!! Wouldnt some one be PISSED!!!!!