Opinions wanted about Hays Rec sports teams programs

First of all if I offend some parents sensibilities here, I'm sorry k? This topic is something I feel pretty strongly about and Ive talked to others that feel the same way here in Hays so I thought I'd see what people here thought.

Last night I was at my nephews coach-pitch baseball game. When the batters were up, if they got 3 strikes, a tee was dragged out and the kid then got to hit t-ball style. Now I ask you, WHAT THE HELL? I mean come on here. What kind of message are we sending our children with this stuff? Look its a game, the game has rules, namely, 3 strikes and you are out. Why the t-ball?

Also, Ive been watching my other nieces and nephews games this year and my daughter played the last several years. ( not this year as Ive had enough)

A good 80% of these games I sit there and the theme song from that old movie Bad News Bears runs through my head. These kids are learning pretty much nothing. Oh to be sure, everyone's all touchy-feely and we are giving mad props right and left - "good job!!!" "way to stay in there!!!" blah blah blah. In the meantime you will have MAYBE 3 kids on each team that actually have some skill and these kids get SERIOUSLY tired of playing this kind of ball week in and week out and they get really tired of losing all the time in the name of everyone feeling all warm and fuzzy.

I should also say that the Victoria and Ellis kids do not have to contend with this system since they get to play together on the same teams from little on up so naturally they come over here and proceed to kill the Hays teams weekly.

There is the option of traveling ball, but unless you have serious money to throw away every weekend for motel and meals, your kids not gonna get that opportunity either.

Look Im not saying that people who arent very good players shouldnt be allowed to play, but jeez louise there HAS to be a better way to run this program than the way its being run.

I would just like to hear what people think about this system in Hays. I know for a fact that Salina and Abilene do NOT run their programs this way.

Nope not that song, I mean the one where they keep screwing up all their fielding.

Here we go, this is pretty much the truth.

I find it hard to believe that no one has an opinion on this. Hmmmm

A rehashed arguement about todays snot nosed children and their entitlement parents.

I think it's funny that Ellis and Victoria kicks their butts...... maybe small town life has more advantages than we realize. The kids learn to be tough and competetive and that life isn't always easy. Ya gotta work to accomplish something.

I do agree with you on the use of the tee. Teams should use the rules of baseball and make it 3 strikes and your out. What's going to happen to these kids when they play legion baseball are they going to ask for a tee when they get 3 strikes. Once I got into little league we never used the tee, it was pitch baseball made by players on the team and not the coaches. I couldn't believe that Hays uses a pitching machine in their little kids league. I guess things are different in these so called bigger towns.

Yeah but in Salina its not like this. They dont play what I call "warm and fuzzy" sports in their rec leagues. I mean they are all for good sportsmanship etc but they also believe in competition. I dont see how having a kid play on losing teams year after year fosters much self esteem myself.

Ellis and Victoria routinely kick the Hays teams butts because they've all played together from little on up. Unlike here where the teams are drawn out of a hat every year.

Stop complaining. The sooner we turn our children into un-motivated, mindless zombies, the sooner we can have the government controlling every aspect of our lives and then we wont have anything to fear or worry about.

They are taught entitlement. They are taught that it is ok to be gay.

and thats why it was so important to build a sports complex in Hays huh??? dang , I remember getting hit by the ball many times in little league when it was another kid pitching.

but I guess this is what happens in a society where the men have become emasculated by the liberated woman

Feminism. Ain't it wonderful?

That's your cue Bighead. You can tell us all how we resent and fear women now.

That's exactly why Hays hasn't won a state championship in baseball in how many years? Unless you play on a traveling team forget about competition. Years ago when I played we didn't have traveling teams , we had little league and progressive league ( if you were good enough to be drafted ) . There was tournaments after the season was over with the top teams in each league playing for the title at Larks Park ( those are memories that I still cherish). The scores and summaries of each and every game was published in the paper the next night ( god bless Jay Schlyer) . We played by the rules, sure we had players that probably never got a hit all year and got stuck out in right field ( the position you put the worse player) . There was some very good players those days ( not that there aren't now ) but it was kinda like the old adage " you get out of things what you put in it ). Drive by any playground these days , how many kids do you see playing a "pickup" game of baseball? Life isn't perfect, you won't always get that A in class, or the job you applied for. Hays Rec is doing nothing but developing a bunch of kids that are going to have the mindset that they will always succeed in life even if they put in the least possible effort.

That was then. This is now. If do not agree with it, Obamma will re-educate you.

plowboy wrote:

That's exactly why Hays hasn't won a state championship in baseball in how many years? Unless you play on a traveling team forget about competition. .

Exactly. And if you dont have a bunch of disposable income forget about traveling teams.

So what opinions have you gleaned?

So far that most feel the same way but like me they dont have a solution as far as Hays Rec goes.

Start your own league. Make sure you can pay for insurance and have access to the Government run Ball Parks.

I think the HRC needs to put a cap on a few things. First is for the kids that go out for traveling teams and then play on an HRC team. Not everyone can afford to do traveling and thus can't get the best coaching there is... so why put your kid in this league(so far I've seen it in soccer and t-ball) where they get this huge sense of cockyness and they are only 5 or 6. That is something that needs to be changed.

I ALSO agree with the ellis/victoria thing. They may be from a small town but they must also not have enough kids that go out to have their own rec. I'm sure they also have a lot more time to practice together where HRC limits practice... or they make kids practice on a wednesday when many kids have religion that night. I have called their office and asked them why they had practice on wednesday nights and she told me "that it has always been that way and the kids that have religion just don't go to practice." I think that is a bunch of b.s.

finally, the t-ball thing is a little outrageous. They are supposed to be learning "fundamentals" but what is fundamental about having a backup for when the kid really doesn't care why he's out there, and sucks. They just need to stick to the 3 strikes and let it be.

Why do the kids need religion on Wednesday? Ain't it enough they have to give up part of their weekends for it?

Ratzilla wrote:

Why do the kids need religion on Wednesday? Ain't it enough they have to give up part of their weekends for it?

I was always told God is everywhere. Why go to religion at all? If God is cool as his followers thinks he is, he's probabally at practice..

nitromaxx98 wrote:

I was always told God is everywhere. Why go to religion at all? If God is cool as his followers thinks he is, he's probabally at practice..

God's followers think he'll strike them with lightning and throw them in the eternal fires of hell for not going to church. I guess I don't figure that's real cool.

Ratzilla wrote:

nitromaxx98 wrote:

I was always told God is everywhere. Why go to religion at all? If God is cool as his followers thinks he is, he's probabally at practice..

God's followers think he'll strike them with lightning and throw them in the eternal fires of hell for not going to church. I guess I don't figure that's real cool.

Because that's where the collection plate is?

nitromaxx98 wrote:

Ratzilla wrote:

Why do the kids need religion on Wednesday? Ain't it enough they have to give up part of their weekends for it?

I was always told God is everywhere. Why go to religion at all? If God is cool as his followers thinks he is, he's probabally at practice..

Church gathers all the little boys in one place to make it easy for the priests to make there selection for molestation

That'd suck to have to put money in the plate every week while your son gets drilled by the priest.

And just like that this thread has become:





As far as the Ellis Victoria thing this is what I was told: They refuse to be put in the general draw for teams because they cant be driving over here all the time for practices, hence their kids get to stay together.

Ha.

bg0308 wrote:

I think the HRC needs to put a cap on a few things. First is for the kids that go out for traveling teams and then play on an HRC team. Not everyone can afford to do traveling and thus can't get the best coaching there is... so why put your kid in this league(so far I've seen it in soccer and t-ball) where they get this huge sense of cockyness and they are only 5 or 6. That is something that needs to be changed.

How is it possible for a kid to be in Hays for Rec League games and be in Salina or Topeka or Emporia or Hutchinson at the same time for games with a traveling team? When my youngest son was first approached about playing on a Hays Soccer Club team, he was 7. He was already signed up and on an HRC team for that season. In fact, I was the coach. What ended up happening was that he went and played on the HSC team. His mother took him to the games and I stayed in Hays and coached the HRC team.

bg0308 wrote:

I ALSO agree with the ellis/victoria thing. They may be from a small town but they must also not have enough kids that go out to have their own rec. I'm sure they also have a lot more time to practice together where HRC limits practice... or they make kids practice on a wednesday when many kids have religion that night. I have called their office and asked them why they had practice on wednesday nights and she told me "that it has always been that way and the kids that have religion just don't go to practice." I think that is a bunch of b.s.

At the initial coaches' meeting prior to each sports season, the coaches are given the opportunity to sign up for practice days and times. If one of your kid's practice days is Wednesday, it's usually because the coach put that down as one of his/her preferred days. Understand that not every request is honored, especially requests for times, but for the most part, practice days are chosen by the coach. As far as the amount of practice time is concerned, the Ellis and Victoria teams are supposed to abide by the same rules as the rest odf the HRC teams. I'm not saying that it always happens or that it never happens. However, the parents all get copies of the rules for practice time. If they are okay with teaching their kids to disregard the rules, that's their problem. Maybe they don't understand that for many of the kids in the rec leagues, especially the younger kids, they don't give a rat's ass whether they win or lose. The most important thing is what they're getting for a snack after the game.

bg0308 wrote:

finally, the t-ball thing is a little outrageous. They are supposed to be learning "fundamentals" but what is fundamental about having a backup for when the kid really doesn't care why he's out there, and sucks. They just need to stick to the 3 strikes and let it be.

I don't remember this in coach pitch. Maybe it's changed in the past few years. However, if this is the way it is now, it's just plain stupid. The kids know if they suck. Instead of worrying about whether any feelings will be hurt, perhaps the coaches should put their efforts toward teaching fundamentals of the game and helping the kids improve their skills.

How is it possible for a kid to be in Hays for Rec League games and be in Salina or Topeka or Emporia or Hutchinson at the same time for games with a traveling team
Unlike soccer I believe HRC plays its games on weeknights leaving the weekend open for those players to travel .

I have views on both sides of this argument and I'm just going to throw some out, not an argument (per se) for either side.

The biggest problem HRC has for the younger ages is finding coaches. Many times it is just a parent who had no idea/clue what they are doing, but was asked to step up and coach. Boys T-ball has 17 teams this year. There are probably not 17 parents that really know how to coach beginners baseball. Remember this is 5 and 6 year olds (I'll get to the coach pitch in a minute) and you have to teach them to throw, catch, hit, run, where to run, what an out is, where the positions are, etc. Throw in the fact that teams are only supposed to practice 2 hours a week. The practice season, had at the max, 3 weeks before the first "game", which is really just a simulated game. Most coaches probably only had 2 weeks or 4 practices, which is really just 4 hours before the first simulated game (and that was if there were no rain outs or schedule conflicts). Once the season starts, many teams cut back to 1 practice a week. There are 6 simulated games in a season. So, when you get down to it, there might be 20 hours that a kid was with the team (4 practices before the first game, 6 games (hour long), then 2 practices for 5 weeks in between games). Not a lot of time for a "coach" who probably doesn't know how to teach baseball, then throw in that they are 5 and 6 years old and that there are 10 of them on a team. So, it's not like practices are that structured.

Now moving on to Coach Pitch, which is for 7 and 8 year olds. If a coach is lucky, they get a kid who has played tee ball for the last 2 years. Probably only half to 2/3rds have though. The season is different for this age group, they have 2 to 3 weeks of practice, and then they have games during the week, usually the same days they had practice, so the games will take the place of the practices. So, they get even less pure practice time and more game time. There are 12 teams this year, so you still have the same problem in that you get coaches who aren’t really coaches. At this age, even the kids who have played before, you would still have to teach them throwing, catching, hitting techniques. Also, during a game, there are maybe at most 3 at bats for a kid (due to the 5 innings or 1 hour time limit, maybe more). Now when you factor all of this stuff in, how many times do you think the kid has gotten to practice hitting?

This is supposed to be developing the kids; this is supposed to be about obtaining the skills to play in the future. If a kid walks up there, swings 3 times and sits, then they never get to learn the other things that you learn when you are on base. When to run, is it a pop fly and I should stay or will it get through and I can go from 1st to 3rd, etc. Also, not all kids develop at the same age and speed. So if a kid at age 7 never gets a hit and never gets on base, then they might think the game sucks and never play again when they get older and their coordination catches up to them.

So, contrary to popular belief, there is may be a method to HRC’s madness. Also, I think this is only the 3rd year they have done the Tee rule in coach pitch.

I’m not saying I agree with it, especially if you look at it from another side and how this could actually hamper kids self esteem.

This is all well and good for the little kids. But I personally have seen really craptastic coaching/playing/concession making at the junior high/high school level for both boys AND girls in the HRC rec leagues and the reason so many of these older kids refuse to play summer ball for Hays Rec is because of this stuff. Im sorry but I think one these kids hit the middle school age then it should be run the way it used to be run when competition was encouraged and the kids actually learned something besides the warm and fuzzies.

Aha!!!!!! Got to the root of the problem....its the concessions!!!

So far as the craptastic coaching goes......lol....walk a mile in their shoes....I wouldn't be complaining about a guy that will watch your kid for free several hours a week. (I am guessing that the coaches are not paid?)

Who are you to judge the players? Do you know enough about baseball to call the players performnance "craptastic"? If you ARE this knowledgeable, then maybe YOU can donate time to help coach the children.

The only abridge rules that I think HRC has for middle school kids is playing time. Kids pay money to play and thus they feel that they should all have equal playing time. I am not aware of any other rules that are bridged for "fluff", can you give me an example, so that I can debate them with you?

Again, not saying I agree with them, just debating them.

No Mike, the coaches are not paid. They even have to convince some parents to do it, as there are usually more teams then their are coaches. There were well over 600 kids in the spring HRC soccer.

I have heard (should put what ever weight you want to in this comment) that there have been studies (not HRC's) that show the main reason kids stop playing sports was due to a bad experience with an adult (either coach or parent), rarely have they said it was because of the rules!

lilchefed wrote:

The only abridge rules that I think HRC has for middle school kids is playing time. Kids pay money to play and thus they feel that they should all have equal playing time. I am not aware of any other rules that are bridged for "fluff", can you give me an example, so that I can debate them with you?



I have heard (should put what ever weight you want to in this comment) that there have been studies (not HRC's) that show the main reason kids stop playing sports was due to a bad experience with an adult (either coach or parent), rarely have they said it was because of the rules!

First of all to answer Mike. Ive coached pal, from the t-ball level clear up to high school in varying sports so I think Ive paid my dues. And the reason I dont coach anymore has zip to do with the kids. I got tired of putting up with the parents whining.

To answer lilchefed, the main one that really stinks is the continual rotating of the players. I dont mean in and out of the game, I mean being ahead in a game and then having to put little Johnny or Susie on 3rd base because thats where they want to play and then having the game blown. Now if this was a once in a blue moon occasion, no biggie, but I saw it happen repeatedly over the last 3 years. Now I dont know about your kids, but I know at least 20 kids personally who get tired of losing on a weekly basis.

And Im sure that there are studies that say that, but I can tell you that they can barely manage to fill out the summer ball leagues for the older kids and the reason Ive heard EXCLUSIVELY (and this was from no less than probably 17 different sets of parent over the last 3 years) was because of the way HRC runs its program as far it it being pretty much non-competitive.

The Other One wrote:

bg0308 wrote:

I think the HRC needs to put a cap on a few things. First is for the kids that go out for traveling teams and then play on an HRC team. Not everyone can afford to do traveling and thus can't get the best coaching there is... so why put your kid in this league(so far I've seen it in soccerand t-ball) where they get this huge sense of cockyness and they are only 5 or 6. That is something that needs to be changed.

How is it possible for a kid to be in Hays for Rec League games and be in Salina or Topeka or Emporia or Hutchinson at the same time for games with a traveling team?

plowboy wrote:

Unlike soccer I believe HRC plays its games on weeknights leaving the weekend open for those players to travel .

Huh?

So you become a whiney parent yourself and start to belittle the players and coaches? Way to stay classy. I am sure it is much apperciated by all.

lilchefed wrote:

there have been studies (not HRC's) that show the main reason kids stop playing sports was due to a bad experience with an adult (either coach or parent), rarely have they said it was because of the rules!

I quit baseball because of the rules. They had some silly rules about being sober and not lighting up a cigarette in the dugout. Damn socialists.

Actually the reason I quit baseball was because I got tired of the coach's son thinking he always had to pitch. We finished second place that year and I was ok about it but the coach's son bawled like a 2 year old as we shook hands with the winners because he wasn't on the first place team. I was so damn embarrased.

mikecc wrote:

So you become a whiney parent yourself and start to belittle the players and coaches? Way to stay classy. I am sure it is much apperciated by all.

Dude seriously????????????? Put me on ignore OK? I can not have a conversation with you. You arent happy unless you are saying something shitty about me. You've gotten banned numerous times for it and Im just plain old tired of dealing with you ok? Ive been more than civil to you in this entire thread.

And for the record. Im NOT a whiney parent. Ive said NOTHING to either the HRC or a coach EVER in the 5 years I had a kid in their system which I no longer do and wont ever again because she's now too old for HRC so get a grip this isnt the personal vendetta you are making it out to be. I had enough of it from parents to even BEGIN to put another coach through that crap. Once again you are shooting your mouth off about me when you dont know me and never could even BEGIN to know anything about me personally.

And yeah Ratz, funny isnt how the coaches kid always pitches or ends up at first base.

luv2cook wrote:

But I personally have seen really craptastic coaching/playing/concession making at the junior high/high school level for both boys AND girls in the HRC rec leagues

I think you are full of yourself, lol. Why do you insist on degrading the childrens playing abilities?

I wont iggy you because I like your posts too much.

BTW the whole 1st post was a whine.

Looks like a difference of perception as to what belittling coaches and players means. In this forum, or to their faces.

Im just glad we got the holiest woman in Hace here. All Hail Her Highness....all talk.

I used to see plenty of BS in kids sports. One kid on our team wasn't a real fast pitcher, but he was accurate. But he never got into a real game cause the coach's brat would have tantrums. We got second place that year because his arm wore out and daddy couldn't bear to pull him and put the other kid in.

I remember a coach that treated his kids like crap too. He yelled constantly and would rant with hostility at a kid right in front of everyone.

Ratzilla wrote:

Looks like a difference of perception as to what belittling coaches and players means. In this forum, or to their faces.

Not at all. As I said my kid is out of that system. Therefore Im allowed to express my opinion about what Ive both witnessed and experienced. Now while my kid was in that system I wasnt going to go bitch to a coach about stuff because I know they heard it tenfold on a weekly basis and they certainly didnt need my input as well. Even when my kid asked me to speak to the coach I always said "Not gonna happen, you'll have to deal with the system the way it is or you can not play in that system."

And really it will never be a perfect system but as someone upthread so eloquently pointed out, we dont really have that great of high school athletes coming out of here that played SOLELY in the rec league system. Most of the girls on TMP's state softball team played traveling ball. And I will go you one better. I actually had a high school coach tell me not to have my daughter play HRC ball in the summer because, and I quote, "They dont learn crap and its a huge waste of time."

Mike, remember how we told you it is important to respect other members. Show some respect to ALL other members or expect logical reactions from the moderators.

I'm not arguing with you L2C. Just pointing out that you consider belittling a coach or player doing it to their face and mike considers it saying something negative about them to anyone.

Oh I understand the semantics of what you are saying Ratz. I think also that by not naming anyones names you kind of are allowed to discuss the actions without putting the person down if that makes sense? I just was wondering if anyone here felt as I did and if someone had an idea how to "fix" this problem is they felt that way. I certainly dont have all the answers but I thought it might make for a good debate.

Justoo wrote:

Mike, remember how we told you it is important to respect other members. Show some respect to ALL other members or expect logical reactions from the moderators.

Yeah, right.

luv2cook wrote:

As I said my kid is out of that system.

Liar. When was this stated?